The. v. chapyter

NOwe after thys hys double folye well and wysely putte forth at ones, he bryngeth me to myn opposycyon. And therin he handeleth me so hardly, yt I cā not scape, which waye so euer I take. whether I say that Chrystes dyscyples and apostles herde and vnderstode theyr may sters wordes in all the thre places, or that I saye that in any one of those thre places they vnderstode him not. For here to be sure to holde me in on both sydes that I scape not, he shew eth what daūgeour I fal in, whyche waye so euer I take. For he sayeth that on the tone syde I denye the gos spell yf I answere no or naye, and on the tother syde I am taken in myn owne trappe, yf I saye ye or yes.

And surely here he playeth the wysest poynte and the moste for hys owne suertye, that I sawe hym play yet. For ye shall vnderstand that in the fyrste parte of my Confutacyon in the thyrd boke the. clxxx. syde, for as myche as Tyndale hathe ben so longe out of England, that he could not tell howe to vse these englyshe […], naye and no, ye and yes: I gaue hym a rule and a certayne samples of ye rule, wherby he mighte lerne where he shold answere naye, and where no, and where ye & where yes.

Nowe mayster Masker whan he wrote hys boke, neyther hauynge my boke by hym, nor the rule by hart thoughte he wolde be sure that I sholde fynde no suche faute in hym / and therfore on the tone syde for the answere, assygneth ye and yes both / and on the tother syde bothe naye and no / leuynge the choyce to my selfe, whyche he durst not well take vpon him, lest he myght shew therin suche congruytie in the Englyhhe tonge; as he sheweth in some other thynges wherin he speketh englyshe as congrewe, as a man myghte that hadde lerned his englishe in a nother lande.

But now muste I answere hym to his subtyll questyons. His fyrste questyon is thys.

He asketh me, whether Chryste dyscyples and his apostles, hard him not and vnderstode hym not, whā he sayde, I am the dore, and whan he sayde, I am the vyne, and whan he sayde, my fleshe is veryly meate &c. Mayster Maskar is so wyly that I must nedes take better hede what I answere him, thā I shold nede, yf I were to answere a good plain man of the countrey. For maister Maskar in ye. 29. lefe bosteth hym selfe of his connynge ryally and sayth.

It […] veryly the thyng that I desyre euen to be wry ten agaynste in thys mater. For I haue the solucyone of al theyr obieccyone redy.

Now syth therfore this man is so cunnynge, and hath his answerys so redy for all obieccyons that men may lay to hym: he can not be by lyklelyded but wonderfull sure & redy, with subtyll replycacions, agaynst all answeres that men maye make to those opposycions that he deuiseth agaynst other men him self. I wyll therfore be as ware of him as I cā. And fyrst I say that his questyon is captiouse. For he asketh one answere to thre thynges at onys / and in eche of the thre he asketh me two questyons at ones. For he asketh of ye dore, and the vyne, and of his fleshe, all thre at ones. And yet of eche of these not a double q̄stiō as I told you / but a qua treble questyon at ones. For he asketh both of his apostles and the disci ples / and not onely whether all these herde Chryste at all thre tymes, but also whyther all these vnderstode hym. And all twelue questyons mayster Masker wylyly to bygyle suche a symple soule as I am, asketh in one questyone at ones. And therfore leste he betrappe me, I shall some what at the leste wyse dyuyde theym.

And than I saye to the fyrste que styon whyther Chrystes dyscyples and apostles harde hym not and vnderstode hym not, when he sayde I am the dore: because the questyon ys yet double and captyouse, I purpose to make sure worke & answere, that I can not tel, I thinke that some dyd and some dyd not, for some of them I wene were not there.

Nowe yf he saye that he meaneth onely them that were there: so wold I to haue taken hym, yf he were a good playne soule, and not suche a sotle sophystre that longeth to be arguynge, and hath all thynge so redy vppon his fyngers endes.

But go to nowe, though I could yet haue other answeres for hym yf I wolde: yet for hys lordely pleasure I […] content to graunt hym, that they bothe herde hym and vnder stode hym / wherin I graunte hym more yet I promyse you, than he can precysely bynde me to by the texte.

All thys grauntynge for this place geueth hym no grounde yet. […] here I am well contente, not onely to say al that he sayth, that is yt his apostles and dis discyples vnderstode that Chryste calleth hym selfe the dore but by a parable / and therfore meruailed not at yt maner of speking. But I saye more to, that so dyd also the Iewes that reproued hym and repugned agaynste hym. And saye also that they repugned so myche the more agaynste hym, and so myche the more murmured and disputed agaynst the mater, in how myche they more vnderstode the maner of ye spekynge and that parable. For they wyste well that worde of the dore, was spoken by a parable, for Christ playnly expowned it. But they mur mured myche at that yt no man might well come in but by hym. Let vs now to ye secund than. And where he asketh me whyther Chrystes dys cyples and his apostles, herde hym not and vnderstode him not, when he sayde, I am the very vyne: here I wolde for myne owne suertye aske¹ hym, whyther he meane by Christes discyples and apostles, some of both sortes, or ellys those disciples onely that were both dyscyples & apostles, How be it yf I shold aske him thus he wolde say I dyd but tryfle / & that euery man maye well wytte by the puttynge of hys questyon, that he meneth of eyther sorte some. For els he wolde haue sayd no more but apostles which had ben inough if he had ment but them. And also it were agaynste his purpose, yf Chrystes other dysciples vnderstode hym not, though his apostles dyd. well I am content than to take it so. And than vnto the questyon, whyther his discy ples and apostles harde not Chryste and vnderstode hym not, whan he sayd I am the very vyne: to this questyon copulatyue I answere no. But than mayster Masker replyeth, that the scrypture is playne agaynste me. But vnto that replyca cyon I say naye. For I saye that the scrypture there wyth saynt Marke & saynt Luke set vnto it, proueth myne answere trewe. For it appereth well amonge them thre, that bysyde thapo stles, none of his other dyscyples vn derstode hym, for none of his other dyscyples herde hym, for none of his other dyscyples were there, nor yet all his. xii. apostles neyther / for Iudas was gone before. So that in this parte of his fyrste questyon, mayster Masker hath geuen hym selfe a fall in the subtyll proponynge of his que styon. As to the vnderstandynge, I agre that they that were there vnder stode hym, whiche maketh nothynge agaynst me.

Now to the thyrde place whan he asketh me whyther Chrystes dyscyples & his apostles herd hym not and vnderstode hym not, whan he sayed, my flesh is very mete &c. Fyrste as for his dyscyples I saye no not all. Than sayth mayster Masker that yf I say nay or no, the scrypture is playne agaynst me. Iohn̄. 6. But to that say I agayne, that whan I saye no, ye scripture is euyn there with me. For as the gospell there playnely tel leth, many of his dysciples though they herd hym well, dyd vnderstand hym amysse. For though they vnder stode hym ryght, in that they perceyued that he spake of the very eatyng of his very fleshe: yet they vnderstode hym wronge, in that they toke hym that they shold eate it in the self flesshely forme & in dede pyeces with out lyfe or spyryte / and therfore they went theyr waye from hym and lefte hym, and walked no more after with hym. Here hath mayster masker an other fall in thys place to, to wchyng his fyrst que siyō as for ye dyscyples.

But what saye we than for thapo stles? dyd not they vnderstand hym? what yf I here wolde say naye? than except mayster Masker could proue yes, ellysis not onely his fyrst questyon gone, whyche he maketh for a waye to the secunde / but his secunde que […] is clerely gone to, wherwith he wolde make me be taken in myne owne trappe. And therfore fyrste for argument sake, I denye that thapostles them selfe vnderstode Chryste worde. Now wyll now mayster Masker proue me yt they dyd, Mary sayth he; for they were well acqnaynted wyth suche phrases. And answered theyr mayster Chryst whan he asked theym, wyll you go hense fro me to? Lorde sayd they to whom shall we go, thou hast the wordes of euerlastynge lyfe / & we byleue that thou arte Chryste the sone of the lyuynge god.

Now good reader I thynke there be some textes in scrypture that may ster Masker vnderstandeth not no more than other pore men. But yet yf he wyll not agre that, but say that he vnderstandeth: yet yf we wolde put ye case that there were some such one texte, he wold I thynke admytte the case for possible. Let vs than put him hardely none other, but euyn the same wordes of Chryste that we be now in hande wythall. For no man vnderstandeth any word wurse than he vnderstandeth those, euyn yet whyle he wryteth on them. If hym selfe had ben than of that flocke, and had sene all other thynges in Chryst that his apostles saw, and had byleued in hym, and had not mysse trusted Chryste, but ben redy to do what he wolde byd hym do, and byleue what he wolde byd hym byleue / but had yet as for those wordes of eaiynge Chrystes flesshe thought them hard to perceyue what Chryste ment by theym / but though he fully vnderstode them not as he thought, yet he dowted not but that good they were that god spake, and that Chryst if he taryed hys tyme, wold tell hym ferther of the mater at more leysour: yf now whan other went theyr waye, Chryst wolde haue sayde vnto hym, wylte thou mayster Masker go thy waye fro me to? whyther wold than mayster Masker haue letted to saye euyn the selfe same wordes that the apostles sayd with other lyke, whyther sholde I go fro the good lorde? Thou haste the wordes of euerlastynge lyfe, & I byleue and knowe that thou arte Chryst the sone of the lyuyng god, and art able to do what thou wylte, and thy wordes be holy and godly whyther I vnderstande them or no / and thou mayst make me perceyue them better at thy ferther pleasure. wold mayster masker haue ben contented to saye thus: or ellys wolde he haue sayd? Nay by my fay good lorde, thou shalte tell me this tale a litel more playnly yt I may bet ter perceyue it by & by, or els wyll I go to the deuyll with yender good felowes, and lette theym dwell wyth the that wyll.

Now yf mayster Masker wolde (as I wene he wolde but yf he were starke madde) haue sayde the same hym selfe that saynt Peter sayde / or be content at the lest that saynt Peter sholde saye it for hym, though hym selfe hadde not well and clerely perceyued what Chryste ment by those wordes: Now can he nowe proue by the same wordes of theyrs, that thapostles vnderstode hys wor des than.

Thus you se good readers, that of his two questyons; the fyrst haue I so answered that it is come to no thynge / (yf I wolde stycke wyth hym styll at hys answere) tyll he haue better proued me than he hath yet, that thapostles in the syxte chapyter of saynt Iohn̄ dyd vnderstand Cristes wordes. And now therfore tyll he haue better handeled his fyrst que styon, he can agaynste me neuer vse his secunde, wherby he bosteth that I coulde make none answere, but suche as sholde take my self in myne own trappe. From whych syth I am clene ascaped all redy, by the answerynge of his fyrste questyō, you may good readers se, that mayster Masker goth as wylyly to worke to take me, as a man myghte sende a chylde about wyth salt in hys hand, and byd hym go cache a byrde, by layenge a lytell salt on her tayle / & whan ye byrd is flowen, comforte hym than to go cache another, and tell hym he hadde caught yt and it had taryed a lytell.

Footnotes

1. […]. 15. ↩