whether the chyrche were before the gospell, or the gospell before the chyrche

TIndale hath all thys whyle wyth his defence of chaungynge chyrche and other thynges vsed in the chyrch, malycyously by hym chaunged in his translacyō / kept vs as it were styll stryuynge wyth hym in the chyrche porche. But now haue I wonne the porche vppon hym / and we be comen to ioyne togyther wythin the chyrche. For now takynge hys translacyon for damnable as it is / we be comen to trye bytwene vs the falsed of hys pestylent heresyes concernynge the chyrch and the worde of god, by the spyryt of god taughte vnto hys chyrche / wyth which heresyes he corrupteth the worde of god, and wyth poysen infecteth hys chyrche / as I haue before manyfestely declared, bothe concernynge Crystes holy sacramentes and dyuerse other artycles of Crystes fayth.

But for as mych as by the dyscourse of my dyaloge, I proued clerely that nothyng can be sure & certayne amonge crysten men not so mych as the holy scrypture it selfe, but yf we byleue the chyrche / and I proued also that the chyrch of Cryste can not fall in dampnable errour, but hath ben, is, & eue[…] shall be, taught by the spyryte of god euery necessary […]r[…]u[…]h to the bylefe wherof god wyll haue them bounden / and that thys chyrche is and euer hath ben taughte by the worde of god partely wryten and partely vnwryten / and yt those two wordes are bothe of one authoryte / and fynally dyd I proue that the very chyrche of Cryste here in erthe whyche hath the ryght fayth, and whyche we be bounden to byleue and obaye, is thys vnyuer[…]all knowen people of all crysten nacyons, that be neyther put out nor openly departed out by theyr wylfull scysmes and playnly professed heresyes / and that Luthers chyrche & all the chyrches sprong out thereof, wyth all the prophetes and patryarches of the same, as Suinglius, Butzer, Balthasar, Otho, frere Huyskyn, frere Lambert, and Tyndale, be the synagoge of Sathan and seruauntes of the deuyll: nowe cometh me Tyndale and perceyuynge hym selfe sore bounden to the stake wyth the strength of thys chayne / begynneth to wrythe and wrestle and fareth fowle wyth hym selfe, to loke yf he coude breke any lynke therof. where about for as mych as he seeth that all the rable of heretykes haue longe labored of olde / and yet theyr bokes vanesshed awaye to ye deuyll with them selfe / and that the deuell hath of theyr dry asshes reysed vp an hundred sortes of new sectes of heretykes, mych more blasphemouse then euer were the olde: he hath ouerloked studyously all theyr bokes / and wyth all the poysen that the deuyll hath put in them hath stuffed hys mouth full, to spet it out agayne agaynste god and hys holy sacramentes, and all good crystē people whom he laboreth to enfecte with the fury, that they sholde not knowe the very chyrche of god whereof them selfe be membres / but wolde make them so madde as to byleue that the chyrche of god were some one sorte of an hundred sectes of heretykes, & no marke among them all why more the tone then the tother / where as they muste and do in thys poynte all agree, that they be all false saue one, and the trouth is in dede that they be false euerychone.

Now to knowe that the nerer Tyndale cometh to the mater, the forther he fleeth from yt trouth / and hydeth hym selfe in the derkenesse of the deuyll, walkynge with a sconse of a dymme lyghte to make men w[…]e he wolde shewe them the way, and ledeth them clene awry: ye shall here how boldely he begynneth / and after shall I so shew you the mater, that euery chylde shall perceyue hys bolde wyly foly to come of no good truste in hys cause, but lakke of wytte and shame.

Tyndale

Whyther the chyrche were before the gospell, or the gospell before the chyrche. An other dowte there is, whether the chyrche or congregacyon be before the gospell, or the gospell before the chyrche. whyche questyon is as harde to solue, as whether the father be elder then the sonne, or the sonne elder then his father. For the hole scrypture and all byleuynge hertes testyfye, that we are begottē thorow the worde. Wherfore yf the worde begette the congregacyon, and he that begetteth is before hym that is begotten: then is the gospell before the chyrche. Pause also Romano. ix. sayth: how shall they call on whom they beleue not. And how shall they byleue without a precher. That is, Cryste must fyrste be preached ere men can byleue in hym. And then it foloweth, that the worde of the preacher muste be before the fayth of the byleuer. And therfore in as mych as the word is before the fayth, and fayth maketh the congregacyon: therfore is the worde or gospell before the congregacyon.

Lo he that redeth this and hereth not thanswere, excepte hym selfe be well ryped in the mater: maye wene that Tyndale in these wordes had quyt hym selfe lyke a man, & borne me ouer quyte / he solueth the obieccyon so playnely, & playeth therwith so pleasauntely. But now when ye shall vnderstande that neuer man was so madde to make thys obieccyon to Tindale but hym selfe: then shall ye laughe to se that he wresteleth all alone & gyueth hym selfe a fall, and in hys mery solucyon mokketh also no man but hym selfe.

I sayed in my dyaloge that the chyrche was before the gospell was wrytē, and that the fayth was taught and men were baptysed, and masses sayd and the other sacramentes mynystred amonge crysten people, before any parte of the newe testament was put in wrytynge / and that this was done by the word of god vnwryten. And I sayed also there, and yet say here agayne / […]hat the ryght fayth whiche Adam had and suche as in the same fayth succeded hym, longe ere wrytynge beganne, was taught by the worde of god vnwryten / and so went from man to man, fro the father to ye sonne by mouth. And I sayed that thys worde of god vnwryten / is of as greate authoryte as is the worde of god wryten.

I shewed also that the chyrche of Cryste hath ben, is, and […]uer shall be, taught and instructed by god and hys holy sp[…]ryt wyth hys holy worde of eyther kynde / that is to wyt bothe wyth hys worde wryten and hys worde vnwryten / and that they whyche wyll not byleue goddes worde but yf he put it in […]ynge, be as playne infydeles as they yt wyll not byleue it wryten / syth goddes worde taketh hys authoryte of god th[…] s[…]eketh it, an[…] not of man that wryteth it. And there is lyke suertye and lyke certayne knowledge of the worde of god vnwryten, as there is of the worde of god wryten / syth ye knowe neyther the tone nor the tother to be the worde of god, but by the tradycyon of the chyrche. which chyrch as all crysten men byleue, and the scripture sheweth, and saynt Austayne declareth, and Luther hym selfe confefseth, and the deuyll hym selfe sayeth not nay / the blessed spyryte of god hath inwardely taught, teacheth, and euer shall teache, to know, iudge, and dyscerne the worde of god from the worde of man / and shall kepe the chyrche from errour ledynge in to euery trouthe / as Cryste sayth hym selfe in the.xvi. chapyter of saynt Iohn̄s gospell. whych he dyd not yf he suffered the chyrche to be dampnably deceyued in takynge the worde of man for ye word of god / wherby it sholde in stede of seruyce to be done to god, fall in vnfaythfulnes, and wyth idolatry do seruyce to the deuyll.

And therfore I shewed in my sayd dyaloge / and yet the kynges hyghnes mych more playnely shewed in hys moste erudyte famouse boke agaynst Luther out of which I toke it: that the word of god vnwryten is of as grete authoryte, as certayne, and as sure, as is hys worde wryten in the scrypture / whyche poynt is so faste and sure pytched vppon the rokke our sauyour Cryste hym selfe, that neyther Luther, Tyndale, nor Huskyn, nor all the hell houndes that the deuyll hath in his kenell, neuer hytherto coulde, nor whyle god lyueth in heuen and the deuyll lyeth in hell neuer herafter shall (barke they, bawle they neuer so faste) be able to wreste yt out.

And that they be all as I tell you so feble in this poynte, whereuppon theffecte of all theyr hole heresies hangeth (for but yf they veynquysh this one poynt, all theyr heresyes fully be burned vppe and fall as flatte to asshen as yt were all moyse all obstinate heretyques dyd) ye maye se a clere […]roue by these wordes of Tyndale, whyche he hath sette so gloryously forth in the fore fronte of his batayle, as th[…]gh they were able to wynne the hole felde. For where as I sayed yt the gospell and the worde of god vnwryten was byfore th[…] chyrche / and by yt was the chyrche begonne, gathered, and tought / and that the chyrche was byfore that the gospell yt now is wryten was wryten, that is to wyt byfore any par[…] of the gospell was wryten / for as for all ye hole gospell, […] is to wyt all the wordes of god that he wold haue […] byleued, and kepte, was yet neuer wryten: this beynge the thynge that I sayd, Tyndale wyth all the helpe he hath had of all the heretyques in Almayne this two or thre yere to gether / is yet in such dyspayre to be able to matche therewith, that he is wyth shame inough fayne to forgete that I sayed the chyrche was byfore the gospell wryten, whyche thynge hym selfe can not denye, and is fayne to frame the doute & make the obieccyon / as though I had sayed that the chyrch had bene byfore the gospell and the worde of god vnwriten / wherof hym selfe knoweth well that I sayed clene the contrarye. And therfore good readers hauynge this thynge in your remembraunce: take now the payne to reade Tyndales wordes agayn, and ye shall haue a pleasure to se how fondely he iugleth afore you. For now his crafte opened & declared vnto you: ye shall perceyue yt he playeth nothynge clene / but fareth lyke a iugler that conuayeth his galies so craftely, that all the table spyeth them.

Tyndale

And agayne as the ayer is darke of yt selfe, and receyueth all her lyght of the sonne: euen so are all mennes hertes of them selfe darke wyth lyes, and receyue all theyr trewth of goddes worde, in that they consent therto.

And this lyketh me very well / and so myche the better by cause that the goodnesse of god causeth Tyndale to speke these wordes, nothyng touchyng the mater for any reprofe of my boke / but onely reprouynge hym self and condēnyng all his hole secte. For I neuer sayed, nor no man ellys as I suppose neyther crysten nor hethen / that god taketh hys trewth or his lyght of man but man of god. And therfore this holy sermone he spendeth but in waste / sauynge as I sayde for the condemnynge of hym selfe and his secte.

For syth yt is trew that by the lyght of god as Tyndale here confesseth, mennys hartes be clensed from lyes & false opynyons and from thynkyng euyll good, and therfore frō consentynge to synne / and we se well that Tyndale and all hys secte be sette all vppon heresyes & false blasphemouse lyes, and thynke (yf they thynke as they saye) bothe euyll good & good euyll / for they call Crystes sacramentes euyll and […] lechery good / and so not onely cōsent to synne but also commytte and defende and teache the whole dede stynkyn[…] […] of synne: yt foloweth by Tyndales own holy sermon here, that his owne herte and the hertes of all hys whole secte be the darke ayer of hell / from which the lyght of goddes owne gloryouse sonne that came to geue lyght in to ye darke ayre of this erth, hath farre wythdrawē his bemys. And this hath Tyndale wyth his owne holy wordes deuysed of none occasyon / and farre from the mater but onely to shew ye glorye of his hygh spyrituall phrase: nothyng done at all but geuyn hym selfe a fall, and throwen all hys mater in the myre.

yet hath he one worde, by whyche it appereth that whyle he saw hym selfe fallen: he wolde pull downe other men in to the myre to hym. For yf ye consyder hys wordes / ye shall se that he cowcheth them in suche wyse, that he wolde make men wene that where so euer there were a trew bylefe and false opynyons taken awaye / that there it muste nedes be yt men shall not consent to synne. whyche thynge he doeth for the colour and cloke of theyr false opynyon, by whyche they teche that fayth alone alwaye suffyseth / wherin when they fynde them selfe so shamefully confuted and conuicted, they be loth to seme to fle by day, and therefore they fle by nyght and retrete them selfe in the darke / makyng as though they were mysse taken and ment no thyng, but that who so haue a ryght byleue & not a false opynyō, it can not be but that he must nedys do well as Tyndale sayth here, yt he which doth not byleue euyll to be good, he shall neuer consent to synne.

As it is a greate foly to afferme thys / so were it all moste as mych foly to cōfute thys. For who is there that thynketh that to kyll a man for hys money is no synne and yet many wretches do it. who thynketh that aduowtry is no synne, & yet many wretches do it. who th[…]nketh yt to wedde a nonne is no synne / I dare saye not euyn these wretches them self yt wedde them, but they veryly know it for synne and yet the wretches do it. And therfore thys tale of Tyndales is but a very folys[…]he heresye.

Tyndale

Iohn̄.xvij. Sanctyfye them o father thorow thy trewth. And thy worde is trewth. And thus thou seyst that goddys trewth dependeth not of man. It is not trew bycause man so sayth o[…] admitteth it for trew.

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whereof serueth all this whyle no man sayed ye contrary.

Tyndale

But man is trew bycause he byle[…]eth it, testyfyeth, and gyu[…]th wyl[…] […] hy[…] harte that yt is trew.

Nay pe[…]de thys is not alway trew. For saynt Peter hym selfe was not trew, when he testyfyed & gaue wytnesse wyth hys mayster in his harte, and yet forsware hym openly with hys mowth. And Iudas byleued in hys harte that goddys worde was trew / and yet was hym selfe not trew but a false thefe and a false traytour to. And now adayes also be there many false theuys and traytours vnto god, false heretykes I meane, that by the worde of god byleue and wote well inough that it is abomynable thefte and sacrylege for a frere to wedde a nonne / and yet as false harlottes bothe, do and teche the contrary to theyr owne bylefe.

Tyndale

And Cryste also sayth hym selfe Iohn̄.v. I receyue no wytnesse of man. For yf the multytude of mann ys wytnesse myghte make ought trew: then were the the doctryne of Machomet trewer then Crystes.

Now cometh he sumwhat to hys purpose in dede / but he cometh to a full shrewde purpose. For by these wordes of Cryste in the fyfth chapyter of Iohn̄ / he wolde make it seme that there sholde no credence be gyuen to ye chyrche bycause they be men / and therefore can not as Tyndale sayth […]ere […]ytnesse vnto Cryste nor hys worde, syth Cryste sayth hym selfe I receyue no wytnesse of man. To thys purpose hath he brought forth all hys gaye paynted processe byfore / the glyterynge wherof he hopeth sholde so dase our eyen, that we sh[…]lde not se the falsed of hys shorte sodayne conclusyō, in whych he knytteth vp Cryste and Machomet togyther, to confounde the credence and authoryte of Crystes chyrch.

But good crysten readers, dyfferrynge for ye whyle Machomett[…]s doctryne wyth whom Tyndale maye make a matche: I shall shewe you what fraude and deceyt Tyn […]le here vseth, bothe in the translatyng and in the interpretacyon of these wordes of our sauyour Cryste, that he reher […]th wryten in the fyfthe chapy[…]r of saynt Iohn̄. Cryste in […] place neyther meaneth nor sayth, that he taketh no wyt […] man as Tyndale reherseth / but he bothe meaneth & […] he taketh not hys specyall wytnesse of man but […] to the entent that ye maye the better perceyue […] heresye seme proued by the gospell, he […] the […]. ye shall vnderstande that the latyn tonge […] artycle that ye greke hath, and whiche artycle in parte both oue englysh langage hath, and the frenche also, and dyue[…]se other t[…]ges, and yt is in englyshe this worde, the. For wher[…] as we ha[…]e two artycles in englysh, a and the: a or an (for both is one artycle, to tone byfore a consonaunt the tother byfore […] vowell) is cō men to euery thyng almost. But the sygnifyeth often tymes some specyall thynge, and dyuydeth yt from ye generall. As when I saye a man or a horse / yt standeth indyfferent, & […]pereth not what man or what horse I meane. For if I vow be so vnwyse to say to my seruaūt, go […]o me this […]tand to a man / he sholde not wyt what man he sholde go to. But wh[…] I saye, go do this erand to the man: he woteth wel[…] that I meane a certayne specyall man to hym and me knowen, to whom the erand perteyneth. This artycle the, doth therfore in oure englyshe tonge gyue great lyght vnto the sentence / and the greke tonge hath an artycle yt doth the lyke in theyrs / & the lakke of the lyke doth in the latyne tonge leue often tymys the sentence obscure and darke, whyche […]olde wyth that artycle yf the latyne langage had yt, appere open and playne.

I shall shew you fyrste an example therof in the […] cha[…] pyter of the gospell of saynte Iohn̄, whyche place Ty[…]le hath wronge translated also / for what cause the deuyll and he knoweth. For Tyndale is not ignoraunt of that artycle, neyther the greke nor the englyshe, and maketh hym felt as though he translated ye new testament out of greke. The[…]e wordes be the wordes of the gospell in that place after Tyndales translacyon:

This ys the recorde of Iohn̄, when the Iewes sent prestes and seu[…]es fro[…] Hierusalem to aske hym what art, thou / and he confessed a[…]d denyed not and sayed playnely I am not Criste. And they asked hym what […]ē, arte […] lias. And he sayed I am not. Arte thou a prophete. And he answered […]

I wolde not here note by the […]uaye, that Tyndale here translateth no for nay, for yt is but a trys[…]e and wysta[…]yng of the englyshe worde: sauynge that ye sholde se[…] he which in two so playne englyshe wordes, and so co[…]e as is […] and no, can not tell when he sholde take the tone, and […] the tother / is not for translatynge in to englyshe, a […] very mete. For the vse of those two wordes in answery[…]e to a questyon is this. No answereth the questyon […] by the affyrmatyue. As for ensample, yf a man […] Tyndale hym selfe: is an heretyke mete to transla[…] scrypture into englyshe. Lo to this questyon yf he wyll answere trew englyshe, he muste answere nay and not no. But and yf the questyon be asked hym thus lo: Is not an heretyque mete to translate holy scripture into englysh. To this questyon lo yf he wyll answere trew englyshe, he muste answere no & not nay. And a lyke dyfference is there bytwene these two aduerbis ye, and yes. For yf the questyon be framed vnto Tyndale by thaffyrmatyue in this fasshyō. If an heretyke fasely translate the new testament in to englysh, to make his false heresyes seme the word of god, be his bokes wurthy to be burned? To this questyon asked in this wyse, yf he wyll answere trew englyshe he muste answere ye and not yes. But now yf the questyon be asked hym thus lo by the negatiue: If an heretyque falsely translate the new testament in to englysh, to make his false heresyes seme ye worde of god / be not his bokes well worthy to be burned? To this questyon in thys fasshyon framed yf he wyll answere trew englyshe, he maye not answere ye, but he muste answere yes, and saye yes mary be they, both the translacyon and the translatour, and all that wyll holde wyth them.

And thys thynge lo though yt be no greate mater / yet I haue thought good to gyue Tyndale warnynge of, bycause I wolde haue hym wryte trewe one waye or other / that though I can not make hym by no meane to wryte trewe mater, I wolde haue hym yet at the leste wyse wryte tre[…] englyshe.

But now to the mater selfe. ye se that by Tyndals translacyon ye iewes asked of saynt Iohn̄ whether he were a prophete and that he answered nay / and so he denyed that he was a pr[…]phete. Now doeth Cryste testyfye of hym, that he was b[…]h a prophete and more thē a prophete / so yt yf saynt Iohn̄ sholde say of hym selfe that he was no prophete, and Crysts sayed yes / eyther sholde saynt Iohn̄ say vntrew hym selfe, or ellys sholde there an vnt[…]th be spokē by ye mouth of our sauyour hym selfe / of whyche two thynges the tone is […]edyble and the tother impossyble. And in the latyne […] thynge is lefte in dowt[…] for lakke as I tolde you […] correspondent to ye greke artytle & to the en […] the / and for that cause some eyght holy men […] were for […] of ye greke tonge myth […] be vnderstanden […] perceyuynge the artycle / saw well inough that he sholde not haue translated it in to the englyshe, art thou a prophete, but art thou ye prophete / and then were the mater open and playne. For they asked hym not whyther he were a prophete, that is to wytte whyther he were any prophete / but whyther he were the prophete, that is to wyt the greate prophete of whom Moyses prophesyed and promysed in the dewteronomy / of whyche prophete there was opynyon amonge many of the iewes,¹ not that he sholde be Cryste but a grete prophete that shold come before hym / and therfore they asked saynt Iohn̄, arte thou the prophete, menynge that specyall prophete. And yet the iewes that asked saynt Iohn̄ the questyon, notwyth standynge that by theyr owne questyon they knewe that he dyd not in hys answere denye hym selfe to be any prophete, but that specyall prophete of whome they ment: dyd yet falsely reherse hym in theyr anger, when they sayd agayne vnto hym, yf thou be neyther Cryste nor Nelyas nor prophete, why baptysest thou then. And as ye iewes dyd then wyttyngly false reherse hym: so doth Tyndale as falsely now translate hym / makynge it seme that by theyr questyon and hys answere, eyther saynte Iohn̄ sholde saye vntrew, or ellys ou[…] sauyour hym selfe. And for what intēt let Tyndale hym selfe tell / but that he so doeth hys translacyon sheweth. And that he doeth it wyttyngly well appereth, by that he is not so ignoraūt in the greke tonge, but that he knoweth the artycle there whyche he sholde haue taken in to the englysshe / and in many other places so hath he done. And in this place yf he had not perceyued it hym selfe: yet yt good vertuouse and well lerned man Nicholas de lyra, gaue hym warnyng therof / whom though Tyndale lyste to set at so shorte and mokke and scorne, sayenge that Lyra desirat: yet he shall not say nay but he gaue hym good warnynge here, and hath in dede more good lernynge in the scrypture of god, then hath Luther and Huchyns, and fyue frere Huys[…]yns, & as many frere Lambertes to.

Now that I haue shewed you somwhat of the strength and effecte of the artycle, bothe greke and englysshe, whych declareth that the worde whereto it is set, sygnyfyeth not a thynge generally and confuse at large, but some specyall thynge determynate of that kynde / and that I haue sh[…]ed you one ensample therof in ye gospell whyche Tyndale h[…] euyll translated: I wyll now go ferther and shew you […] he hath euyll translated also thys selfe same texte of saynte Iohn̄ to, whyche he now alledgeth, & hath therin falsyfyed the wordes of our sauyour hym selfe, whyche he now bryngeth forth for hys purpose.

The wordys spoken by our lorde be as Tyndale hath translated them these, I take no recorde of man. In the latyn they be thus Ego testimonium ab homine non recipio. whyche yf it be translated into englysshe without the artycle as the latyn hath none / then is it thus, I take not recorde of man, and not as Tyndale hath translated, I take no recorde of man He maketh his englyshe as though the latyn were, ego nullum testimonium ab homine recipio. And whyther the sentence be precysely both one in these twayne, I take not recorde of man, & I take no recorde of mā: we shall not now nede to dispute, syth Tyndale taketh the sentence wronge whyche of them both so euer were the wordes, as I shall shew anon. But fyrste I shall go forth and shew you as I byganne, that he sholde haue translated the wordes in to englysh otherwyse / and therby haue expressed the greke the better, and yet not contraryed the latyne.

ye shall therfore vnderstande that in that place of saynt Iohn̄ the fyfte chapyter, where Tyndale hathe translated Crystes wordes in this wyse, I receyue no recorde of man: the greke boke hath there vppon thys worde recorde the artycle, that is as I haue shewed you correspondent vnto our englyshe artycle the / by which artycle put byfore ye word recorde, that word there in the tonge in whych theuangelyste wrote the wordes hym selfe, sygnyfyeth not a comen record in generall, but a certayn[…] specyall kynde of recorde / as the greke artycle made the worde prophete in the fyrste chapyter, to sygnyfye not a prophete in generall, but a specyall prophete whome the Iewes loked for.

And therfore I saye that Tyndale sholde in his englysh translacyon not haue lefte oute that artycle the / but sholde at the leste wyse haue translated yt thus, I receyue not the recorde of man / where as wyth his translatyng no record, yt article the, wheruppon the wayght of the sentence hangeth / he hath not onely lefte oute but clene excluded also. For yf he had translated yt, I receyue not recorde of man, though he le[…]t oute the[…] yet he myght take yt in there to and mende yt, makynge […] I receyue not the recorde yf man. But now that he hath translated yt, I receyue no recorde of man: he hathe excluded yt vtterly but if he take in not, and putte out his false no / for he can not saye I receyue no the recorde of man. And thys hathe he done not of ignoraunce but of malyce, to make yt seme that Cryste vtterly refuseth and reiecteth all maner wytnesse of man, in testyfycacyon and wytnessynge of hym and his trouth. And this translacyon therfore deuyseth Tyndale / bycause he wold haue vs wene that Cryste wolde haue the wytnesse of all his chyrche vtterly serue of noughte.

But now bycause yt wyll peraduenture seme vnto some menne, that though he had in his translacyon expressed the greke artycle and made yt thus, I take not the recorde of man, that yet yt were all one and no differēce bytwene those wordes and these, I take no recorde of man: of trouth the dyfference is not ethe for euery man to man to perceyue / & yet some difference is there in dede, as there is bytwene these twayne: If a man wolde saye in spekynge of god and Moyses, I take Moyses for no leder of the chylderne of Israell / he shold say wrong, for he shold deny hym to haue ben theyr leder in any maner wyse, as he was theyr leder in dede. But yf he wolde saye I take not Moyses for the leder of the chylderne of Israel, he shold saye well inough / for he shold therby not vtterly denye Moyses to haue bene any maner leder of them / but he shold denye that he was theyr onely leder or theyr chyefe leder / meanynge that though he were a leder, yet god was the leder, that is to wyt the chyefe leder. Now yf any yet perceyue not clerely the strength of this artycle: he maye consyder that yt is not all one to saye, I take you for no man, or I take you uot for a mā / & I take you not for the man. The two fyrste excludeth hym vtterly from all the nature and kynde of man / the thyrd doth but denye hym to de some such certayne man as they meane of.

But yet shall ye ferther vnderstande that as I sayd in the begynnynge, though oure artycle the, be correspondent vnto the greke article in declaryng the certayntie of the thyng that it is put vnto, and in restraynynge the worde from hys generall sygnyfycacyō to a more determynate especyaltye / and that in many thynges thys is very playne and clere: yet doeth not our artycle somtyme so fully and so effectually declare that thynge as doeth the artycle in the greke specyally, but yf we chaunge the order of our englysshe wordes from the order of the greke. And therfore I saye, that to put away the dowte and for the better expressyng of the artycle / Tyndale shold in the translatynge of that place, haue chaū ged somwhat the order of ye wordes. And where they lye in the latyn in thys wyse: I receyue not the recorde of man / he sholde rather haue translated it thus: the recorde I receyue not of man. For by so translatynge those wordes, and so chaungynge the order: he sholde haue gone more nere to the expressynge of ye very sentence that Cryste there spake and ment / whyche was that the specyall recorde he toke not of man but of god / and not that he wolde take of man no maner recorde at all, as I shall anone so clerely proue you, that Tyndale shall neuer whyle he lyueth wade out therof.

But fyrst it wyll happely seme hard to some men, that he whyche translateth sholde in hys translatynge make any chaunge in the order of the wordes. ye shall vnderstande yt it is a thyng whych he must many tymes nedys do / bycause of the maners and formes of spekyng in dyuers langages. For yf he shall alwaye translate worde for worde and in the order as it stādeth / he shall somtyme gyue a sentence vnable to be perceyued or vnderstanden / and somtyme a wronge sentence, ye & somtyme a contrary to, of all whyche I coude gyue you samples were it not bothe nedeles & also to longe for thys present boke.

I wyll therfore of a greate many gyue you but one / in whyche Tyndale hath for lakke of chaungynge the order of the wordes, translated a very playne place in the very begynnynge of saynt Iohn̄s gospell, whyther wronge or no lette other iudge / but surely otherwyse then I wolde haue done.

Hys translacyon is thys, In the begynnyng was that worde, and that worde was with god, and god was that worde.

Fyrst thys worde that, putteth Tyndale for the artycle the, wherof I haue shewed you before / wherin he doth mych a mysse. For it is no dowte but that it is here put for to sygnyfye the specyaltye of the thynge, as of god and the worde / bycause there be many wordes, and the paynyms worshypped many goddes / ye artycle is set to those wordes to sygnyfye not a worde nor a god, as though it were one of ye many wordes of men, or one of the many goddys of paynyms / but the god and the worde that is the synguler god and the synguler worde, that is to wyt the worde of god. And that artycle is not in englysshe thys word that, as Tyndale hath translated / but thys word the, as he sholde haue translated / but yf he wyll turne the artycle out of hys kynde.

A man maye say the man that we spake of was here, or that man that we spake of was here. But and yf he speke of hym absolutely, wythout mencyon of any speche before had wyth hym, he muste then saye, the man was here / and maye not saye, that man was here, but yf he adde sumwhat to it.

If ye speke of the cheyfe capytayne of the felde / ye maye saye, the capytayne wyll marche on to morow. But ye maye not saye, that capytayne wyll march on to morow, but yf ye shewe whych capytayne by some other token, or ellys poynt hym wyth your fynger. And Tyndale knoweth thys well inough / and therfore he calleth god all waye the lorde, and not a lorde nor that lorde. And therfore I meruayle why he translated In principio erat verbum, In the begynnyng was that worde / for surely that worde that, was not to begynne with all nor to stande there, but yf Tyndale entended to mokke.

But as I was about to saye, where he translateth god was the worde / all be it that in the greke and in the latyne it doeth well inough, and in the englysshe that maner of spekynge maye stande in many other thynges, and specyally in the plurell nomber, or in the fyrst persone or the seconde synguler, where the thynges that we speke of or the artycle or the dyuersyte of the worde whyche is in the verbe in our englysshe tonge, chaunged in those two persons synguler, taketh the dowte awaye, and maketh the mater open whyche of the two termys we take for subiectum and whyche for praedicatum: yet in thys greate mater I wolde rather in our owne tonge haue chaunged and turne[…] the order of the wordes & translate it thus: the word was god / then as Tyndale doth god was the word / lykewyse as I wold in englysshe rather saye Cryste was god, then god was Cryst. For these wordes god was Cryste, or god was the worde be not well spoken / sauynge that we vnderstande thereby the tother wyth the wordes chaunged, that is to wyt Cryste was god, and the worde was god. For ellys vnderstanden as it standeth god was Cryste / were as mych to saye as that all y• thre persons the father, sonne, and holy gooste were Cryste all thre.

How be yt I saye not this to shew that I thynke yt Tyndale mēt any euyll in this / nor I impugne not in this pa[…] his traslacyon so greatly, but yt maye be borne: but […] the tother is in englyshe better and more clere. And […] this / to shew that the order of the texte in scripture, maye be sometyme by ye translatour better chaunged then kept. And I tell you this to thentent that ye maye the more clerely perceyue, that Tyndale sholde not haue letted in ye tother place that he alleged in the fy[…]the of saynte Iohn̄, I receyue no recorde of man / to chaūge the order of ye wordes wyth settyng in the artycle, and to haue sayed, the recorde I receyue not of man. ye and syth the artycle sygnifyeth the specyall kynd of recorde: rather then to do as he hathe done leue yt quyte out, as though god refused all maner wytnesse of man / he sholde rather haue translated yt, the chyefe recorde I receyue not of man / as hym self hath in ye.xiiii. of saynt Iohn̄ translated, the chyefe ruler of thys worlde commeth / where as in the greke is not this worde chyefe / but that he putteth yt in hym selfe bycause of the artycle, whyche he wolde not withdraw from the deuyll, te[…] he shold haue mynyshed his honour. But he wythdraweth yt here from the wytnesse of god / bycause he wold take from god the witnesse of all trew crysten people, whyche by theyr trew bylyef do sette theyr sealys as wytnesses to the trewth of god.

Now yf he wyll contende and stryue wyth vs vppon the vygour & strength of this artycle the, or of his correspondēt in the greke / and brynge vs forth example in our speche or in the greke eyther, in whyche yt maye seme that those artycles haue not alway that man[…]r strength: all this shall nothynge […] all.

[…] receyuynge. Now yt is not all one to say I take no recorde of man, & to saye I receyue no reorde of man. For the tone sygnyfyeth yt I care not greatly for yt, nor y• I[…]wyll not go aboue yt. But the tother I receyue no wytnesse of man / sygnyfyeth that I wyll not receyue yt but refuse yt though yt be offerde / or ellys a nother thyng whyche wyll not serue for Tyndales excuse, that is to wyt, I receyue none bycause no man o[…] erth me none. But Cryste wythout sekynge for yt, was offerd the wytnesse of saynt Iohn̄ / whych Tyndale maketh as though Cryste rei[…]cted, whyle he falsely translateth the wordes or our sauyour, and maketh hym say, I receyue as wytnesse of man.

Now shall I playnely shew you by many places of scrypture, that yt ys false that Cryste receyueth no recorde of man / and then may ye therby se that Tyndale hath translated false. Or yf he wolde blynde you wyth brabelynges vppon the greke tong / ye shall at ye leste wyse ꝑceyue playnely, that he taketh the sentēce falsely. For these two be playne repugnaūt, that god receyueth some recorde of man / and that god receyueth no recorde of man.

For Tyndale can […] saye[…] here that Cryste spake yt there by the fygure called ype[…]bole, as saynte Iohn̄ dyd where he sayed[…] his wytnesse no man taketh, meanyng very few. Our sauyour hym selfe in the.xxliii chapyter of saynt Luke, whē he had shewed his apostles and other of his dyscyples that all thynge wrytē of hym by Moyses and the prophetes and in the psalmes, were and most be fullfylled / and theruppon opened theyr wyttes to the vnderstandyng of scripture, and sayed vnto hym, thus yt is […] & thus yt dehoued Criste to suffer and to ryse agayne from deth the thyrd daye, & […] penan̄ce and […]omyssyon of synnys sholde be preach[…]d in his name amonge all nacyons begynnynge at Hierusalem[…] he sayed vnto them forther, and ye are wytnesses of […] ges / & lo I wyll sende the promyse of my father […] but tary you in Hierusalem tyll ye be endewed wyth power […]rom an hygh.

[…]

He sayeth also hymselfe […] ende. The new testament is full of those places / in which yt appereth playnely that men be the wytnesses of god. For though that hys tre[…]th is so iustyfyed in yt selfe, that yt nedeth no wytnesse neyther of man nor angell, as touchynge any nede that god hath for hym selfe: yeth syth he entendeth to worke the waye to mannes saluacyon, not by onely myracle (wherby he myght yf he wolde so wreste man[…]es wyll to consent, that he sholde not fayle to byleue / or caste in to ye he[…] such[…] a lyght of vnderstandynge, yt he sholde not fayle to knowe euery artycle of the fayth) but also by a naturall waye ioyned thervnto / wherin the wyll of man maye by the labour of hym selfe wyth god in the captyuynge of his wyt, wyth helpe of grace in to the obedyence of the worde of god, somwhat indeuour hym selfe towarde his owne saluacyon by fayth: yt pleaseth god to vse in thys waye the wytnesse of men for a meane / as he sayth in the same.v. chapyter spekynge of the wytnesse of saynt Iohn̄, where he sayth, there cord I take not of man, but I tell you this bycause ye shold be s[…]ed / geuyng thē knowlege yt though his credēce hang not vppon the mouth of man, for he hath as he there sayth a greater wytnesse then ye wytnesse of saynt Iohn̄, yt is to wyt the wytnesse of ye father hym selfe: yet was yt ordeyned yt he shold haue also ye witnesse of saynt Iohn̄, & so afterwarde of hys euangelistes & apostles, ye & after yt of his other holy doctours & sayntes of euery age, & specyally, ye wytnesse of his hole […]ere & gyue […]redēce vnto them for a meane by god prou[…]ded, by whych man shold come to fayth for his saluacyō. Here ye ꝑcey[…] yt not onely in other places of holy scripture / but also in ye self same place yt Tindale br[…]ng[…]h […]th hym […], wyllyng by hys false trāslatyng & false vnderstandynge, to make men w[…]ne that god taketh no ma[…]er wytnesse of man: it is clerely proued yt he neyther sayed nor […] […]aner / but that he receyued not hys […] use he had greater recorde then […] whyche hys father […] of hys father hym […] he receyued and accepted […] the wytnesse of man also, […]

[…] whyche is the spyryte of trouth that […] […]eth of the father, he shall bere wytnesse of me / and ye shall bere wytnesse also, bycause ye haue ben wyth me from the begynnynge.

And yet for bycause we sholde not by these wordes wene that he wolde haue no wytnesses of […]enne, but those onely that were wyth hym in hys owne tyme whyle he lyued here on erth: god sayth by the mouth of saynt Iohn̄ the baptyste in the.iiii. chapyter of saynt Iohn̄ the euangelyste: he that cometh from heuyn is aboue all, and testyfyeth: the thynges that he hath seen and herde; and hys testymony […] […]eceyueth. who so euer do receyue hys […]ecorde hath putte hys seale thereto that god is trew. And what is that to saye […] but that euery trew byleuyng man is a wytnesse y• god is trew.

And thus appereth it not onely that Tindale hath mysse translated and mysse construed these wordes of Cryste, I receyue no wytnesse of man, for the furnysshynge of hys heresye, by whyche he wolde take awaye the creden[…]e of Crystes catholyke chyrche: but also ye se it proued by these wordes of saynt Iohn bapty[…]te, that euery trew byleuyng man that byleueth goddes worde, is a good wytnesse of god and hys worde / whyche clerely proueth that Crystes catholyke chyrche is a very specyall wytnesse. For onely in that chyrch is the nomber of trewe byleuynge me[…]/and all that are fallen owte of that catholyke knowen chyrche are very false byleuynge heretykes.

And also syth our sauyour sayth, my cheyse […]ytnesse I take not of man / but yet I saye to you thys, that is to wy[…]e the wytnesse of the good holy man saynt Iohn, bycause ye sholde be saued: it appereth that Tyndale refusyng all wytnesse of man, is lykely to be one of those that for […] […] nes […]ue[…] shalbe saued.

Now all be it that I haue in thys […] uycted Tyndale of ma[…] […] by […] uertynge the holy scrypture of god, as well in […] as in the sentence, for the settynge for th[…] […]ys yt […] resye / takynge awaye the […] gyue to the chyrche of god, and the […] men are bounden […] doeth all thys bycause […] brynge men into the […] myth as I se that Tyndale […] py[…]et[…] and wolde we sh[…]l[…]e […] handeled, I wyll a lytell stykke y• lenger therin / to thentent that I maye make you the better and the more clerely perceyue, that all that he sayth therin is eyther playne vntrew, or ellys suche parte as is trew proueth hys purpose false.

And for as mych as Tyndale is all in the worde of god / and wolde therby make vs wene that mēnys wordes sholde vtterly serue of nought, not so mych as for the wytnesse of goddys worde: ye shall vnderstande that where Tyndale sayth that the word of god clenseth mānys soule from false fayth, Io.v. ye be clene by reason of ye worde / yt is not trew that (as Tyndale wolde haue yt seme) the worde alone clenseth the soule from false fayth, no more then fayth alone as he wolde haue yt also seme, clenseth the soule fro synne. For bysyde the grace and goodnesse of god preuentyng mennys wyll, wyth offerynge man by ye herynge of hys word a gracyouse occasyon of fayth / & bysyde mannys owne wyll workynge wyth grace towarde the captyuynge of hys vnderstandynge, towarde the bylyefe of goddes worde / & bysyde the grace, ayde, and helpe of god workynge wyth mannes wyll towarde that obedyence, wheruppon foloweth ye grace that accōplisheth and perfay[…]eth the full acte of belyuynge: bysydes all these I saye there helpeth towarde yt a nother thynge, wythout whych many a man sholde neuer haue cō men to yt / and that is bysyde the worde of god, the wonderfull workes of god in […]oyage great and meruelouse myracles, wythout whyche in […] a man sholde neuer haue byleued that he had ben god / as hym selfe testyfyeth in the.v. of saynt Iho[…], sayeng: The workes whyche my father hathe geuen me to do: y• same workes whyche I do, they be wytnesse of me that my fathe[…] sent me.

wyll ye se that Cryste putteth not all in hys worde, but ioyneth hys worke the […]yth. Here what he sayth in the.xv. chapyter of saynt Iohn̄. If I had not comen and spoken vnto them, they shold […] synne / but now haue they nothynge to cloke theyr sy[…]ne wythall. He that hateth me hateth my father. Now though thys be in dede trew, that yf […] had neuer comen and spoken to them, there coude not […] ben layed vnto them the synne of that […] […] ere now […] when they refused to byleue on […] hated […] to shewe that h[…]s onely […] wroughte myracles amonge them for the profe of his word[…] therfore he saith ferther, If I had not […] workes among them whyche none other man dyd / they sholde be wythout synne. But now they haue seen and yet haue hated both me and my father.

Thus haue I clerely shewed you that where Tyndale wolde haue yt seme, that goddes worde alone alwaye clenseth mennys soules from false fayth: he teacheth in that a false fayth / for the myracles many tymys helpe to the clensynge of mennys soules.

And lette Tyndale stykke well to thys poynt / for I entende shortely to shew by this, that the miracles wrought in Crystes chyrche, clerely reproue all the false fayth that he & his mayster, & all theyr whole hondred sectes that are theyr ofsprynges preachen.

But fyrst where Tyndale sayth that goddes worde ys trew / & layth therfore the.xvii. of saynt Ion̄: no man sayth nay to y•. And where he sayth forther, y• goddꝭ trewth dependeth not of mānys word: we wyll graute hym this, & mych more to then he loketh for. For I say ferther that the trouth of god dependeth not vppon goddes owne worde neyther / but is absolutely trew in yt self without any dependaūce vppon hys word at all. And as yt is trew that Tyndale sayth, that goddes trewth is not trew bycause man so sayth: so is this trew also, that goddes trewth is not trew bycause god so sayth. But on the tothe[…] syde lykewyse as this argument or cōsecucyon is trew, god sayth that who so byleue not his chyrch / is to be takē as a paynem, ergo that thyng is trew: so is thys consecucyon trew, Crystes chyrch […]ayth ye who so breke hys vow of chastyte synnet[…] dedely, & who so holdeth yt for lefull holdeth an heresye / e[…]go these two thy[…]ges be trew, and yet is neyther the […]ye[…] of the chyrche the cause of the trewth of these two, nor the sayeng of Criste the cause of the trewth of the tother. But lykewyse as y[…] I […] syt, yt must nedes be that he sytteth whyle I se hym syt / b[…]use I could not se hym sytte but yf he […]atte in dede / & yet he sytteth not bycause I se hym sythe, for […] sholde though I saw hym not / […] vppon the trouth of hys dede. For though the worde of god can not be but trew, syth yf the thynge were not trew, god y• is the trewth wolde not saye yt: yet is the thynge trew that god speketh / not bycause it is trewly spokē, but bycause it is trewly done. For treuth was the thynge in yt selfe, & treuth yt sholde haue bene, all had yt neuer be spoken. And thys I saye is trewe, touchynge the wordes and proposycyons by whiche god any thynge telleth to his creatures by wrytyng or wythout / leste Tyndale make vs here some sophystycacyon, as though I spake of the great worde of god wherby all thynge is made, the sonne of god hym self one egal[…] god wyth hys father and theyr holy spiryte.

If Tyndale aske vs now wherof serueth then the treuth of goddes wordes: I saye that yt serueth to make knowen or byleued amonge vs the treuth of goddes dede. For when god sayth, who so byleueth and is baptyzed and lyueth well after, or doth penaunce for his synne / shall for hys fayth & good workes be hyghly rewarded in heuen: though thys shall not be trew bycause god sayth yt, but bycause he wyll dot yt / nor he dothe yt not bycause he wyll saye yt, but he sayth yt bycause he wyll do it: yet hath he ordeyned that his worde shall be the way by whiche that trouth shalbe shewed vs / and that myracles ioyned vnto hys worde sholde make vs perceyue that yt is his worde, whereby wyth reason we muste nede[…] be bounden to byleue yt / and it beyng byleued, we […]e by reason […]unden to obey yt.

And this y[…] therfore the waye that god hath taken from the begy[…]nynge, that is to wyt he hath from the begynnyng ioyned hys word with wōderfull workes; to make his word perceyued for hys awne.

Thus […] he in eu[…]ry age before the comyng of Cryste. Thus dyd he in Cryste hym selfe, whose wordes he proued by hys wonderfull workes as hym selfe sayth in the.xv. of saint Iohn̄. Thus dyd […]e also by his blessed apostles, whose doct[…]ne he […] by […]. And thus hath he done […]. For likewyse as when he sent his owne sonne, […] hym and hys doctryne decla […] selfe suche as he was […] god made hym do myra […] […] then euer any dyd amonge […] […] the sent his apostles & […] that Cryste dyd, the countrees to whome they were sent, wolde haue went that they had lyed, and fayned suche fables them selfe: therfore Cryste caused them to do myracles in his name before the people / as god caused Moyses to do before Pharao. And when the world was turned to hym; and that apostles were not sent about: then was the chyrch of euery tyme, the apostle to suche as were bor[…]e and came in to y• worlde in theyr tyme / of whome suche as lyued and remayned after theyr tyme / were in theyr stede lefte for the apostle that sholde teche & preche to those other that sholde be borne in to the worlde in theyr tyme, and so forth from age to age. And for bycause that they whyche from tyme to tyme come in to thys worlde, new borne fyrste of theyr flesshely father and mother, and after of god and theyr mother holy chyrche by the water and the spyryte, sholde be sure that theyr sayde mother the chyrche is Crystes apostle and techeth them the trewe doctryne, & neyther deceyueth them wyth false scrypture, as doth the congregacyon of turkes / nor with false tradycyons, as do the synagoges of iewes / nor wyth false exposycions as do the false chyrches of heretykes: he causeth hys chyrche to do myracles styll in euery age, and to be dyscerned and knowen by the plentuouse workyng of goddys wonders by hym selfe wrought therin so many and so grete that no man can be ignoraunt the[…]f, but he that wyll neyther se nor here / or is so desperate and so sore set in an obstynate malyce that he wyll to the deuyll wyllyngly, by doyng now as the iewes dyd of olde, and as Tyndale now doth of new / ascrybynge the myracles wrought by the goodnes of god to be done in goddes chyrch by the power of the deuyll.

And yet when Tyndale is so […] to tell vs thus / he to[…]cheth nothyng thys poynte […]hyche I layed agaynst hym in my dyaloge / that yf hys ly[…] were […] in, then shold[…] folow that of so ma[…] false chyrche[…] […]f false heretikes, […] shold some suche myracles be wrought as well as […]/syth yf that oure chyrche were a false chyrche, it […] one of the many. And yf he wyll saye that […] the greatest and the falseste, and therfore […]alse […] therin […] they stretche from heuyn to hell: they haue not yet amonge […] all […] myracle done greate nor small; neyther by god nor deuyll.

And thys I shew you for the order of the thynge, that ye maye perceyi[…]e that the trewth of god is […]ustyfyed in it selfe, and dependeth not vppon hys worde, nor hys worde is not the cause of hys trewth: but by hys worde he sheweth hys trewth / and by his worde we byleue that he doeth it / and by hy[…] ap[…]es and euangelys[…]es we byleue that he sayed it / a[…] by the chyrche of euery age folowynge, we be taughte and byleue that the eu[…]ngely[…]es a[…]d the apostles preched and taught partely by wrytynge partely by worde wythout wrytynge, suche thynges as the catholyke chyrche of Cryste telleth vs to haue bene taughte by them. And by the myracles done in the same catholyke chyrche, we know that the same chyrche is the […]e[…]y chyrche of god / and that the doc[…]ne of the same chyrch is reueled and tought vnto yt by the spyryte of god / and that all other congregacyons […]

And therfore though yt be trew as in dede yt ys, that the trew doctryne doth proue the trew myracles, and false doctryne proueth the false myracles / by which we be sure y• the Crysten myracles be trew, & y• paynyms myracles false: yet know we whyche ys that trewe doctryne, by the reason that the trew doctryne hath bene better proued and dayly ys better proued, by mo and greater then euer was the false doctryne or euer shall be to y• worldes ende. For as our sauyour saith hym selfe: If I had not come & wrought workes such as no man ellys had done / they had bene wythoute synne. And he promyseth that his preachers shall do the same, and yet greater / and so dyd hys apostles, and his dyscyples, and hys holy doctours, euer synnys in euery age.

And as for false myracles / the catholyke chyrch of Criste as yt is taught by the spyryte of god, dyscerneth them well inough from the trew / and therfore yt dyscerneth and forbe deth the meruayles that appere in crystall stonys, and such other superstycyouse coniuracyons / and ys not moued any thynge to set by them, but condempne them though they be meruelouse / & hath the spyryte of god accordyng to Crystes promyse assystent, wherby yt bothe re[…]ecteth the superstycyouse meruayles, and worketh y• very faythfull myracles, for y• profe of the trew faythfull doctryne and y• trew marke and knowlege of Crystes very trew chyrche, syth none hath miracles but yt.

Now yf Tyndale wyll saye that the doctours of the catholyque chyrche haue not done miracles for euery poynt of theyr doctryne: I say no more dyd the apostles them selfe, though Tyndale saye yes, whych he shall neuer proue. But by theyr myracles they proued th[…]m self trew preachers and goddes trew messengers / and that thynge suffysed for the profe of theyr whole doctryne. And so god hath done miracles synnys for all hys sayntes in euery age / and that suffyseth to proue that theyr fayth was trew and the contrarye false.

And yf he saye farther that euery man in the catholyque chyrch doth not myracles, nor euery doctour neyther: to that I answere that of many men teachyng all one fayth, yt suffyseth yf any one of them do myracles. For when the Iewes were in desert / euery man that was of the well beleuyng sort dyd not myracles / nor […] also dyd no miracles but Moyses dyd, & god wrought […]ōders among them self.

Nor when diuerse apostles went to gether / euery one of them dyd not alwaye a myracle by hym selfe. But syth they were all of one fayth: it suffysed for the profe of the techyng of them all, that any one of them dyd.

If he wyll saye that sometyme the doctours whyche we call holy sayntes, haue not all agreed in one / but some one hath sometyme thought in some one thyng otherwyse then other haue done: I saye that thys his sayenge is nothynge to purpose. For god doth reuele hys trouthes not alwayes in one manner / but sometyme he sheweth yt out at onys, as he wyll haue yt knowen and men bounden forthwyth to byleue yt / as he shewed Moyses what he wolde haue Pharao do. Sometyme he sheweth yt leysourly, suffryng his flokke to comen & dyspute theruppon / and in theyr treatynge of the mater, suffreth them wyth good mynde & scrypture and naturall wisedome, with inuocacyon of his spirituall helpe, to serche and seke for the treuth, and to vary for the whyle in theyr opynyons, tyll that he rewarde theyr vertuouse dylygence wyth ledyng them secretely in to the consent and cō corde and bylyef of the trouth by his holy spirite qui facit vnani mes in domo, whyche maketh his flokke of one mynde in hys house, that is to wyt his chyrche. So yt in the meane whyle the varyaunce is wythoute synne, and maketh nothyng agaynst the credence of the chyrch / excepte Tyndale wyll say that he wyll neyther byleue saynt Peter nor saynt Paule in any thynge that they teache / bycause that ones they varyed in the manner of theyr doctryne as appereth. But he shall neuer fynde that any of the holy doctours helde obstynatly, the contrarye of that thynge whyche the hole catholyque chyrch had in his tyme determyned for an artycle of ye fayth. For I dare surely saye that yf any so had done / he had repē ted and chaunged are god dyd any miracle for hym eyther quykke or dede.

And therfore as tou[…]hynge Tyndale and Luther & frere […]usken: this obte[…]cyon wyll not excuse theyr obstynate heresyes, holden so[…] styffely agaynste all the olde holy sayntes, whyle they saye now that freres maye well wedde nonnes / but yf they repent, and leue theyr heresyes, and do penaūs, and teache trouth / for by such meanes they may yet be fayntes to, and so I […] god make them.

Now yf Tyndale wyll yet forther saye, that the chyrche yt selfe haue not […] in euery age vtterly byleued a lyke / but that the chyrch in some age hath byleued otherwise then it hath in some other: I say that this can also nothyng serue his purpose. For what so euer Tyndale sye: neuer shall he proue the contrarye, but that god is at hys lyberte styll and euer styll shalbe, to teache hys trouthes more and more, as his pleasure shall be to haue thē known, and to gouerne his chyrche to hys pleasure in dyuerse ages after dyuerse maners, such as hym self lyste for to dyuyse / wherof his chyrch is by theyr hole consent sure. For ellys shall the spyryte of god assystent euer with them by goddes promyse, & ledynge them in to all trouth: neuer suffer his hole catholyke chyrch to consente thereto.

And yf Tyndale saye the contrarye of this / he muste also saye that Cryste hath broken hys promyse / and he muste also tell vs, yt we be styll bounden yet vnto thys day[…], & euer shalbe bounden styll, to the law made by god and hys holy apostles at Hierusalē, whyche they made & sent out in wrytynge / where they forbode fornycacyon and eatyng y• meate offred vp to idoles, & all meate of bestes suffocate or strangled, and the eatyng of any bestes blood. whyche ordynaūs yf yt now stande, and that we muste now byleue that yt ys not now lawfull to do any of those thynges there forboden (as we muste in dede yf god were not for all that at his libertye styll in the gouernaunce and teachynge of his chyrche, what he wyll haue byleued and what he will haue done) thē is quyte gone a good pece of theyr plesaunt preachynge of theyr euangelycall lyberty. For then where as they preache that every man is at lybertye to eate what he lyste / they leue no man at lybertye to eate a pore […]uddynge.

But hys chyrch is sure inough / by that they knowe well that theyr hole assent is not wrought wythout the spyryte of god assystent in hys chyrche. And that them selfe be hys very chyrche they be sure inough / by that they se hym specyally present wyth them by hys contynuall myracles, whych fayle in all false chyrches y• be fallen out of thys. All whych false chyrches thys trewe chyrche of cheryte Crystes proper badge / ceaceth not to sollycyte and labour to reuoke and receyue agayne into the porte of saluacyon and the hauen of heuen: excepte the deuyll by theyr ded[…]ly malyce, drowne them vtterly wyth dreuynge them downe into the dep[…]he of indurate harte, thorowly perced with they[…] pestylēt heresye.

And yet I say ferther, that thys obiection of dyuerse a[…] tycles byleued by the chyrch in diuerse tymes wyll not serue the heretykes for theyr defence / syth that they teche suche thynges for trew, as not onely all the holy doctours and all the holy sayntes of euery tyme, but also all the hole chyrche of euery tyme, haue euer taughte to be false. Or ellys they muste shewe vs some one man at the leste wyse that in thys fyftene hundred yere before theyr dayes, hath holden for good and lyefull, that such persons as haue vowed chastyte to god, may[…] ronne out of relygyon and wedde harlottes at theyr lybertye.

Now yf Tyndale wyll take holde of that y• I haue sayd / that god is at hys lybertye to reuele a thynge when he wyll / and that he hath now reueled thys new artycle to hym and hys holy felowes: they must I say then proue vs by myracles that they be goddes trewe messengers / for ellys why sholde we byleue them.

If he say that they proue it by scrypture, in that they preche hys worde: I saye agayne the scrypture I knowe for goddys worde, but them I knowe not for goddys messengers, bycause they wyll not he aknowen of all goddys wordes / for they wyll byleue no word of hys wythout wrytyng / and also his wordes wryten they mysconstrue. And therfore concernyng the worde of god wryten: the questyon lyeth bytwene vs, not vppon goddys worde but vppon the ryght vnderstandynge therof, wherin whyle all the olde holy doctours be quyte agaynste them, we say now to Tyndale that of reason we maye not byleue hym. For in these poyntes wherin we vary / as for ensample that freres maye wedde nonnes: eyther ye scrypture is playne and easy to perceyue, or dowtuouse and harde to vnderstande. If it be playne & easy: we can not thynke but that amonge so many of y• old, holy, wyse, and well lerned doctours / some one at the leste in all thys longe whyle sholde haue ben as able to perceyue it as Luther and he now so sodeynly. And on the tothersyde yf he saye that in that poynte the scrypture is darke & hard: then maye we wyth reason thynke that Luther and he and frere Huskyn to, maye as well mysse vnderstande it now, as all those holy wyse well lerned sayntes all thys fyftene hundred yere. So that yet agayne we be come to the poynt, that Tyndale yf in hys doctryne dependynge vppon thexposycyon of scrypture he loke to be byleued, that freres maye wedde nonnes, agaynst the doctryne of all those olde holy doctours that in theyr exposycyons calle it abomynable lechery: he muste nedys do myracles as they dyd, or els must Luther or frere Huskyn or some one of theyr felowes at the leste.

For where he sayth in one place of hys boke agaynst me, that we maye requyre no myracles of them: yf he had sayd, bycause they can none do, I wold haue taken it for a fynall answere, and wolde haue troubled hym no more wyth that troubelouse questyon. But now bycause he sayth it nedeth not / and wolde it sholde seme that ye myracles which Cryste and hys apostles dyd, sholde serue for the profe of hys doctryne: my conscyence can not suffer me to let hym go so.

For syth our questyon is not vppon Crystes & hys apostles wordes, whyche theyr myracles proued trewe / but vppon the exposycyon and vnderstandynge that Tyndale and Luther gyueth to them / whyche exposycyons all they that god hath euer hath synnes the apostles dayes hytherto by myracles proued to be hys trewe prechers, haue playnely taught to be false: Tyndale maye not saye for shame, but yt for hys doctryne taughte by those exposycyons, yf he wyll be byleued agaynst many prechers proued trewe by many myracles, he must do myracles to / or ellys yf we byleue hym before all them, we be mych more then madde specyally but yf some of hys cōpany and felowes in hys heresye dyd some myracles for hym, whyche our lorde be thanked he suffereth no false chyrche of heretykes to do, but hys owne catholyke chyrche alone.

And now in suche thynges as god seeth moste nede, and the heretykes moste busy to assaute hys chyrche: there doth he moste specyally fence in hys chyrche wyth myracles. As in the reuerence of ymages, relykes, and pylgrymages, and worshyppynge of sayntes, and hys holy sacramentes, and moste of all that holy sacrament of the auter hys owne blessed body, for whych maner of thynges he hath wrought and dayly doth many wonderfull miracles / and the lyke of those that he wrought in the tyme of hys apostles, to shewe and make profe that hys catholyke chyrche is hys perpetuall apostle, how many nacions so euer fall therfro, and how lytell and small so euer it be lefte.

And therfore we saye not as Tyndale bereth vs in hand, that the trouth of god dependeth vppon the multytude of mennys mowthes: but that the catholyque chyrche illustrate wyth the myracles of god, and taughte by the spyryt of god / is set vppon the hygh mountayne of the stone that is Cryste / and therfore can neuer be hyd, but that the myracles whyche god euer worketh and euer shall worke therin, doeth and shall make the lyghte of the doctryne shyne and shewe the ryght waye to heuen.

And these myracles hath god often wrought to the conuersyon and amendement of iewys and heretykes / & often to the confusyon and burnynge vppe of obstynate iewes & heretykes, wyth the begynnynge of theyr hell euyn here in erthe.

Now Tyndale denyeth not but that there be and haue ben suche myracles / but he sayeth that they be done by the deuyll. But then saye I that in hys so sayenge he is worse then euer was the deuyll. For the deuyll durste neuer say so myche hym selfe, as dyd the iewes and nowe Tyndale saye.

But when he sayth it / I saye yet agayne he must shewe me why there be no myracles amonge all hys false chyrches of heretykes / or ellys to calle the trew myracles of god done in the catholyke chyrche of god false illusyons of the deuyll, is a worde well able alone to proue hym selfe a deuyll.

Now yf Tyndale wyll saye that the turkes haue myracles amonge them as well as our chyrche: I maye denye it hym by his owne rule, but if he proue it by playne scripture. But now yf I graūte it hym, yet shall it not serue hym. For I may proue hym by playne scrypture that there be neyther none suche, nor so many done amonge them as these be that be dayly done in Crystes catholike chyrch. For our sauyour sayth yt hys owne myracles passed all that had ben before / & that yet hys apostles and dyscyples and hys faythfull byleuynge folke,² shold do as greate and greater. And we se that in the catholyke chyrche god hath done and dayly doeth for hys sayntes, bothe whyle they were here and after theyr departynge hense / and hath also done and dayly doeth at dyuerse ymages and pylgrymages, as greate myracles in confyrmacyon of our fayth in that behalfe, as euer he dyd in the tyme of the apostles. And therfore am I very sure that neyther paynyms nor turkes be able to matche our chyrche in myracles / but that ours as farre passe all theyrs yf they haue any, as euer the myracles of Moyses passed the wychecrafte of the egypcyan iuglers. And of thys am I as sure / as that ye false chyrches of heretykes do no myracles at all.

Forther more as for miracles or meruayles done among the Turkes or Saracenis, syth Tyndale is not yet as farre as I know cyrcūcysed, nor professyth not hym self a Saracene, nor I know hym not very surely for a Turke but for an heretyque: I shall not greatly nede to dispute with hym vppon myracles done amonge the Machometanys / but (whyche were as good as to do that he doth) let hym go cyrcumcyse hym self, and then come agayne and speke for Machomete and his men, and I shall answere hym forther for theyr miracles. But in the meane tyme whyle I know hym but for an heretyke: yt is inough to tell hym that among all ye false chyrches of fals heretikes there be no miracles at all. But god worketh hys miracles in his trew chyrch, to shew his trew chyrche, that is to wyt his trew apostle. And then his trew preacher knowen / that is suffycient for all his preachynge, and to proue that he doth teache & expoune the scripture after the ryght vnderstyng tought and inspired by the spiryte of god, sent to dwell wyth his chyrche for euer, accordynge to Crystes promyse / and therfore shall not nede n[…] partyculare miracles vppon artycle, for Cryste vsed not that hym selfe.

And thus in this myne answere to his one chapiter, which he so gayly florysshed, that he had went the glyteryng therof wold haue made euery mannys yies so adased, yt no man sholde haue spyed his falshed and founden oute the trouth: I haue is suche wyse confounded hym and all his hole doctryne vtterly / that yf I neuer wold wryte one worde more, yet sholde he neuer agaynst this alone defende his deuelysh doctryne whyle he lyueth, and take all the deuyls in hell to helpe hym.

Deuter. 18. ↩
Io[…]. 14 ↩

Chapter 94 of 95