Chapter XLIII. Of the Humble Answer of Blessed Francis and Dominic when they were Asked at the Same Time by the Cardinals, Whether they would that their Brethren should be Prelates of the Church

IN the city of Rome when those two renowned lights, blessed Francis and blessed Dominic, were together before my Lord of Ostia, who was afterwards Pope, and each in turn had poured forth sweet things concerning God, then my Lord of Ostia said to them, "In the primitive church the pastors and prelates were poor, and men fervent in charity, not greed* Why therefore should we not make bishops and prelates of your friars, who should prevail over all others for a document and example? "Then was there between the saints a humble and devout contention concerning their answer, not indeed a pushing forward, but each in turn turning to the other, and forcing him to answer. But at the last the humility of Francis conquered, so that he did not answer first, and Dominic conquered, who by answering first did humbly obey. Blessed Dominic therefore answering said, "My Lord, my brethren have been exalted to a good condition if they will but know it, and, as far as lies in my power, I shall never permit them to attain any form of dignity." Then blessed Francis, inclining himself before the aforesaid Lord, said, "My Lord, my brethren be called Minors for this reason, that they should not presume to become greater. For their vocation teaches them to remain lowly, and to imitate the footsteps of the humility of Christ, that hereby at last they may be exalted more than others in the sight of the saints. For if you would that they bring forth fruit in the Church of God, hold and keep them in the state of their calling, and if they strive for high things, cast them down violently to the ground, and never permit them to rise to any prelacy." These were the answers of the saints. And when they were ended, my Lord of Ostia, much edified by the responses of them both, gave exceeding great thanks to God. Both going away together, blessed Dominic asked blessed Francis to deign to give him the cord by which he was girded. And blessed Francis denied it him from humility, as he had demanded it from charity. Yet the happy devotion of him who asked did conquer, and blessed Dominic having received the cord of blessed Francis by the violence of his charity, girded it under his tunic, and from that time forth devoutly wore it. Then either of them placed his hands between the hands of the other, and commended each to the other with the sweetest mutual commendations. And so holy Dominic said to holy Francis, "I would, brother Francis, that thine and mine should make one Order, and that we should live in like manner in the church." Then when they were separated from one another, Dominic said to several who were standing by, "In truth I say unto you, that all religious ought to imitate this holy man Francis, so great is the perfection of his holiness."