The secunde chapyter why Tyndale vsed congregacyon for chyrche •

IN the seconde chapyter Tyndale sayth, that he chaunged thys worde chyrche in to thys worde congregacyon in the newe tes[…]ment where he founde thys worde ecclesia in latyn / bycause that the clergye had he sayth brought the people in to the igno[…]uns of the trew sygnyfycacyon of thys […] chyrche, makynge them vnderstande therby no thynge but the clergy.

[…] is […] false what so euer Tyndale say. For all be it that men call the clergye by the name of ye chyrche, as the parte ordayned of god to be the more spyrytuall parte therof: yet is there no man I suppose so rude, but yt he knoweth and so hereth the clergy preche also them selfe, that of the chyrche of Cryste is euery crysten man / and that the hole chyrch is the hole crysten people / and therfore they […] lyke c[…]rche that is v[…]y[…]ersall / by whyche […] I […] so madde to meane […]ely ye […] Tyndale agaynst hys owne […] […]porte […] s[…]lfe […] […]ery other mennys. I wolde […] so mych to other mennys cō […] of […] where […] haue not gyuen them selfe the name. The word is englysshe / and they teche not euery man hys mother tonge, as men teche chyldren theyr a b c. But the good people haue of olde tyme though they knowe them selfe also for parte of the chyrche: yet bycause the chyrch sygnyfyed an holy name of a crysten company gathered togyder in god, haue therefore of humylyte on theyr owne parte and reuerence towarde them, vsed to call the clergye by that name / accomptynge them for the more godly parte of that hole godly company.

And the spyrytualtye agayn warde do playnely declare, and euer haue declared in theyr prechynge / that the name is generall and comune bothe to the temporalte and them / and at large they declare the dyuerse partes of the chyrche, and therin reken them selfe but for one. And thys name so vsed by the temporaltye of theyr owne humylyte and reuerence to warde the spyrytualtye: is not a thynge new founden, but bygonne of olde / at suche tyme as bothe the partyes were I wene sumwhat better, then I fere me they be bothe now.

But now that thynge y• good folke haue of good mynde bygonne, and many hundred yerys contynu[…]d / Tyndale as one of a nother sorte wolde haue vtterly chaunged / and rather then ley men sholde haue any suche reuerent mynde to prestys as to call them the chyrch he wolde take it from thē bothe / and puttynge awaye from bothe that holy name of chyrche, wolde call them both by the name of congregacyō, a worde wythoute any sygnyfycacyon of crystendome any more then of Iewys or Turkes.

Tyndale

To this an[…]wereth Tyndale and sayth, yf this worde congregacyon were a more generall terme then this worde chirche: yt hurteth not, for the circu[…] staunce doth euer declare what thynge is ment thereby.

More

If the settyng of the cyrcūstaunce make all well inoughe he nedeth not mych to care what worde he chaunge[…] nor how. For he maye set suche cyrcumstaunces of […] deuyce / that he maye make men perceyue w[…]at h[…] meaneth. For so he maye translate the worlde in to […] […]o[…]eball yf he ioyne therwyth certeyne […], and saye this rownderollynge foteball that […] vppon […] sayle vppon, in the people whereof there is no […] stabylyte, and so forth a greate longe tale / wyth […]staunces he myght as I say make any worde vnderstanden as yt lyke hym selfe, what so euer the worde byfore sygnyfyed of yt selfe. But surely the worde congregacyon wyth the circunstaunces in the texte: wolde not haue serued whē he translated yt fyrste to make the englyshe reader to take it for the chyrch / no more then idolys for ymages, or ymages for idoles as he translateth in lykewyse, or repentynge for doynge penaūce whych he chaungeth to. But ma[…]y he hath added vnto his translacion such circūstaunces synnys, that the order of pre[…]thed is ryght nought / but that euery man, woman, and chylde is as very a preste as a preest in dede / & that euery man & woman may consecrate the body of Criste and say masse as well as any preste, and here confessyon & assoyle as well as maye a preste / and that there is no dyfference bytwene other folke and prestes, but all one congregacyon and company wythout any diffeerce saue an appoyntement to preache / and also that the comen knowen people of all crysten realmes, clergye, laye people, and all, be not the chyrche nor be no parte of the chyrche, bycause they vse sacramentes and ceremonyes and diuine ser[…]yce in chyrches / but that the chyrch is a secrete congregacyon of vnknowen chosen heretikes, scatered abrode in corners, and studyenge to destroye the chyrche.

These circumstaunces in dede make men to ꝑceyue and vnderstande, what Tyndale meaneth by thys worde congregacyon put in hys t[…]anslacyon in the stede of chyrche. And they p[…]cyue clerely by these cyrcum[…]aunces, that he chaunged that worde of purpose to set forth those he[…]esyes of hys wythall / as boldely as he now sayth […]ay. But all his glose is therin that he wyll saye he taketh than for none heresyes. But on the tother syde all good faythfull people do, and therfore they call ye chyrch the chyrch styll, and wyll not agre to ch[…]nge the olde chyrch for his new congregacyon, but burne vppe his bokes that so calle[…] […] & who so wold so begynne to call yt, wold and well myght begynne to call […] hereteque, for his de[…]ytynge in the imi[…]cyon of herety[…], and his euyll appetyte to sp[…]ke after an heretyques […]

[…]

Tyndale

For whereso euer saythe he that I maye saye a congregacyon / there I maye say a chyrch also / as the chyrch of the deuy[…]l, the chyrch of Sathā, the chyrch of wreches, the chyrche of wykked men, the chyrch of ly[…]rs, and a chyrch of Turkes thereto.

More

This is lustely sayde of Tyndale add lyke a man. But yt pleaseth hym not to consyde[…] that I sayed yt this worde congregacyon is indyffere[…] vnto Turkes and crysten men and vnto all othe[…] companyes and a cōpany of cristen men, so that yt as well sygnifyeth a companye of Turkes as of crysten men / and that this worde chyrch doth sygnifye a cō pany of crysten people, and is not indyfferent to a company of Turkes and of crysten men. And I sayed and yet I say, that this is trew of ye vsuall sygnifycacyon of these wordes them selfe in the englyshe tonge, by the comē custume of vs englyshe peple, that eyther now do vse these wordes in our langage, or that haue vsed byfore oure dayes. And I saye that this comen c[…]stume and vsage of speche is the onely thynge, by whyche we knowe the ryght and proper sygnifycacyon of any worde / in so mych that yf a worde were take[…] oute of l[…]te[…] french, or spaynishe, & were for lakke of vnderstandynge of the tonge from whense yt cam, vsed for a nother thynge in englyshe then yt was in the formare tonge: then sygnyfyeth it in england none other thyng than as we vse yt and vnderstande therby, what so euer yt sygnifye any where elles. Then saye I now that in England this worde cōgregacyon dyd neuer sygnyfye the number of crysten people as cristen pe[…]le, wyth a connotacyon or consyderacyon of theyr fayth o[…] crystendome / no more then this worde assemble, whych […]ath bene taken out of the frenche, and now is by custume b[…]c[…]men englyshe / as cong[…]egacyon is out of the latyne. A[…]d yet I denye […]ot but vnder those wordes both twayne may be c[…]isten men spoken of. For euery asse[…]blye and congregacyon in crysten realmes / is comē […] made of crysten pe[…]ple. But they be not there called cong[…]egacyō or […]ssemble, bycause th[…] […]e crystened / but […] be so called though they were Iewes or Saracēs, though they […] so knowen and […]welled in cryst[…]nd[…]me. I say […]w in lykewyse that this worde chyrche […] hath bene vsed to […] other companye then[…] crysten[…]d in comen spe[…]he […] realme. And for this cause, and yet most […] of Tyndals euyll entent / I sayed and yet saye that he dyd noughte in the chaūge of chyrche for congregacyō, an holy worde for a prophane as farreforth as they both sygnyfye in our englysshe tonge, in to whyche Tyndale made hys translacyon.

Thys was and is the thyng that I sayed and say. Now in sayenge thys / I do not saye vntrew, though Tyndale be at hys lybertye to call a chyrche what hym lyste. For neuer […]ayed I the contrary, but ye Tyndale where so euer he maye saye a congregacyon there he maye saye a chyrche to. For though none englysshe men be wonte to speke so, nor in the comune spech the worde sygnyfyeth not so, nor of ye chyrche that he sholde in his translacyō haue ment of, no good man wyll saye so: yet may Tyndale saye so, the chyrche of Sathan, the chyrche of wretches, the chyrche of wykked men; the chyrche of lyers, and a chyrche of Turkys to / and yet & he lyste he maye set to it the chyrche of heretykes, and ye chyrche of deuyls to.

But now though Tyndale may thus saye for hys pleasure whyche I deny not: yet can he not saye that thys is the proper sygnyfycacyon of that worde, whyche is the thynge that a translatour must regarde. But it is a certey[…]e fygure and maner of spekynge, by whyche men vse amonge to expresse a thynge by hys contra[…]y / as a man myghte say this is the wysdome of a fole / thys is the trouth of a false shrew / thys is the fayth of an heretyke. Thus may Tyndale abuse the holy name of chyrche to any lewde thynge that he lyste / but thys is not the parte of a tr[…]nslatour.

But Tyndale now to conuycte me clerely by lernynge & reason dowble cōfyrmed w[…]h scrypture: sheweth hym selfe in few wordes that he bothe lakketh lernynge and reason, & shamefully abuseth the scrypture. These are his wordes.

Tyndale

M. More muste nedys […] haue ecclesia translated thorow oute all the new test[…]ment by thi[…] […] chyrche) that chyrch is as comen as […]clesi[…]. Now is eccle[…]i[…] a greke […]rde, and was in vse byfore the tyme of […], and taken for a cong[…]eg[…]cyon amonge the Hethen, where no […] […] or of Cryste. And also Luke hym selfe vseth ecclesia for […] of Hethen people[…] thryes in one chapyter, euen in […] Demetrius the goldsmyth o[…] syl[…]rsmyth had gathered a […].

More

Let vs now bygynne at the fyrste pece & ye shall se what he hath / M. More muste nedes graunte that chyrche is as comen as ecclesia, yf he will haue this worde ecclesia thorowe oute all the new testament translated by this worde chyrche.

Fyrst I say that mayster More must not nedys graūte thys to Tyndale neuer a whytte. For yf he turne it from a condycyonall proposycyon in to an affyrmatyue antecedent and consequent: it shall sone be shewed hym that hys consequent were possyble to be false and hys antecedent trewe. For it myghte be that thys worde ecclesia dyd sygnyfy m[…] thynges then the wryters of the new testament had occasyō to speke of wythin y• same. And then though I wolde graūt vnto Tyndale that thys worde ecclesia sholde thorowout the new testament be translated by this word chyrch: yet must I not nedys be dreuen to graūte hym for all that, that chyrche were as comen as eccle[…]ia, bycause it sholde not yet sygnyfye those other sygnyfycacyons of ecclesia that were not spoken of wythin the newe testament. And thus where Tyndale wolde vppon suche an antecedent bynde me by and by of necessyte to hys consequent: it appereth that though I graunted hym the tone / I must not nedys for all hys great worde graunte hym the tother at all.

But now though I must not nedys yet wyll I graunte hym of courtesye / that yf I wyll haue ecclesia translated thorow out all the new testament by thys worde chyr[…]he[…] y• then I muste nedys graunte thys terme chyrche to be as comen, and sygnifye as large and as many th[…]ges as this terme ecclesia. But now when I that must not nedys graūte thys to Tyndale: Tyndale may not chose but must nedys graunte me thys agayne, that yf I wyll not haue ecclesia thorow out the new testament translated by thys word c[…]che y• then Tyndale in all hys gay tale telleth vs nothy[…]e to purpose. But that argument is now lyke as yf he wolde haue argued thus: If mayster More wyll graun[…] me that euery horse is a goose: then must he nedys gr[…]nte me that euery mare must haue a gander to get her […] […]ole. For I nede not to graunte hym the thy[…] that he […]pposeth.

Now tell I Tyndale that in no wyse I […]yll not haue it so / and that I neuer tolde hym that […] haue so. […]u[…] I saye playnely that yf he sh[…]l[…]e tho[…] […]o[…]t […] the […] stament translate thys worde e[…]clesia by thys worde […] I saye that he sholde translate it very naught.

And for bycause that Tyndale eyther euyll perceyueth my wordes, or elles euyll remēbred them / or fynally which is moste lykely, wolde wyllyngly make the reader to take them wronge: I wyll desyre the reader to loke vppon the place hym selfe, which is y•.viii. chapyter of the thyrd boke / and there shall he fynde that I fynde the faute, not in that he translateth this worde ecclesia sometyme in to this worde congregacyon, but that he chaungeth this worde chyrch in to this worde congregacyon, that is to say, that he translateth this worde ecclesia in to this worde cōgregacyon, in such places as he shold haue trāslated yt in to this word chyrch / that is where so euer he hath put this worde congregacyon for the companye of crysten people / for that companye is in englyshe sygnyfyed and of olde hath ben by this holy word chyrche and neuer by this worde congregacyon.

This is the faute that I fynde, and tell Tyndale in that chapyter good and playne causes wherfore, whyche Tyndale here letteth slyppe.

But I wolde in no wyse that as Tyndale taketh me / ecclesia sholde alwaye be translated by this worde chyrche, for that were also wrong. For trewth it is that ecclesia sygnifyeth in the greke tonge a congregacyon, wythout respecte of eyther good or bad crysten or vncrysten. For Tyndale sayth therin trewth, that the worde ecclesia was vsed a thousande yere before crystendome byganne as the bokes proue. But yt wyll be hard to proue & warraunt that this word chyrch was vsed for any congregacyon byfore cri[…]tendome began, or y• euer it sygnifyed any cogregaciō other then crystē. And therfore his reason groūded vppō this worde ecclesia is lytle worth / syth it procedeth not in lykewyse in this word chyrch

And yet toūchynge this worde ecclesia/as connynge as Tyndale wold seme therin wyth his greke & all: he semeth bu[…] porely to perceyue yt. For ye shall vnderstand that this worde ecclesia in the greke tonge dyd not sygnyfye euery man […]upany or congregacyon, nor sygnyfyed not all the cytesay[…] of a[…]y cytye, wyth that respecte that they were cyte[…]s of […]hat[…]yty, or that they were gathered for playeng or […] any such other ca[…]se: but onely these congr[…]ga[…] […] […]ere gather[…]d to g[…]ther to cōmen vppon […] eyther aboute the comen […] peace or wa[…]re or some other commodyte, or for pryuate folkes besynes in such places as all the comen people were iudges, as mych was vsed in Grece and sometyme in Rome to, and was as ye wolde saye the assemblye of the court or the comen counsayle.

Now for as myche as crysten people dyd resort to gether amonge them selfe to prayour and preachyng, and makyng of good ordynaunces delyuered them by the apostles: thys name of ecclesia was applyed vnto y• cōgregacyon of the crysten company. And though yt beganne of such assembles together: yet afterwarde yt obtayned also, bothe amonge the Grekes and Latines crystened, to sygnyfye the crysten folk whyther they were at chyrch or at home, and to sygnyfye also the vnyuersall nomber of all crysten people thorow oute all the world / where as it sygnifyed no such maner of thyng among the paynyms byfore, but onely theyr seuerall assembles such as I byfore descrybed you, and whych was in laten called concio. And yet toke the laten chirch the greke word ecclesia of the greke chyrch that beganne byfore them / and neuer vsed this worde concio, whych sygnyfyed amonge the latine paynyms, both the congregacyon or assembly, and the oracyon also that any man pronounced among them in the same assembly.

Now may ye perceyue that Tyndale wyth all his greke tolde you but a lame tale. For he telleth you not what manner of congregacyon ecclesia dyd sygnyfye in the greke / but mysse taketh yt to sygnyfye euery manner of congregacyon at auenture.

And by this ye maye also perceyue how lytle yt maketh for his purpose, that saynte Luke wherof Tyndale so bosteth calleth ecclesia thryes in one chapyter of the actes, the cō gregacyon that was gathered in Ephese agaynste saynte Paule. For that was suche a congregacyon as I tell you, that ecclesia properly sygnifyed amonge y• paynyms / sauyng that they gathered to gether vppon a rumour and not after theyr customable callynge.

Now though the chyrch was then newly bygonne to be called by the same name of ecclesia, and that after thexample of the tother assembly, and the name not taken from the tother assemblye, nor they[…] assembly for suche maters called by none other: how wolde Tyndale haue had saynte Luke tell the tale but by suche wordes as then represented the mater? But that maketh nothynge for his purpose, but […] agaynste yt. For syth that this worde ecclesia, dyd there sygnyfy that congregacyon of the Ephesyans whyche were paynyms / and therfore in that place ought not to be translated by this word chyrch, whych sygnifyeth onely a cristen cōgregacyon and not a cōgregacyon of paynyms: so shuld ecclesia in lyke wyse whereso euer yt sygnyfyeth a crysten congregacyon, be translated by this worde chyrch / whyche is & euer hath ben the worde that synnes crystendome fyrste beganne amonge englyshe men hath alway serued therfore / & not be translated by this worde cōgregacyon, whych word of congregacyon is a worde of latine, and sygnyfyeth a sort gathered to gether in to one floke, as they speke, in gregem oui uin, gregem gruum, gregem anserum. And so whē Tyndale hath all sayed and all done / this worde congregacion, excepte some specyall places where they haue by custome appoynted it to sygnyfye some sorte of men, as in some vnyuersyties yt sygnifyeth theyr assembles: ellys where no such custome hath appropred yt to any specyall manner of congregacyon / the terme congregacyon absolutely sette, sygnifyeth no more a companye of crysten men, then a fayre flokke of vncrysten geese.

But yet the chaunge of the worde, yf Tyndale had done it eyther of chaunce or of purpose for hys pleasure, and for none euyll purpose: I wolde neuer haue spoken worde agaynst it. But for as mych as I perceyue y• he hath ben with Luther, and was to at the same tyme when he so translated it / and that I knewe well the malycyouse heresyes that Luther began to brynge forth: therfore muste I nedys myssetruste hym in the chaunge[…]

And now I saye that euyn of hys owne wordes spoken here / ye maye in hys trans[…]acyons perceyue hys cancred mynde. For he sayth that Demetrius had gathered a company agaynst Paule for prechynge agaynste ymages. Here may ye crysten reader well ꝑceyue the poyson of thys serpēt. It is to no man vnknowen that all good crysten people do bothe abhorre the Idols of the false Paynyme goddes, and honour also the ymages of Cryste and oure lady and other holy sayntes. And as they call the tone sort ymagys: so call they the tother sorte Idollys. Now where as saynte Paule preched there agaynste idols: cometh thys good man and sayth he preched agaynste ymages.

And as he sp[…]keth here / euyn so he translateth. For in y• fyfte chapyter of saynte Paule to the Corynthyes, where saynte Paule sayth I haue wryten to you that ye company not togyther, yf any that is called a broder be a fornycatour or couetouse or a worshypper of idols: there trāslated Tyndale, or a worshypper of ymages / bycause he wolde haue it seme that the apostle had in that place forbodē crysten men to worshyppe any ymages / and that who so worshypped any ymages, men sholde not company wyth hym. Here ye maye se the synceryte and playne menynge of the mannes translacyone.

Now seeth he well inough, that saynte Paule spake not of ymages but of idols / and he perceyued both that he so dyd, and also wherfore he so dyd, by hys other wordes wryten in the tenth chapyter of the same pystle / where saynt Paule spekynge of the meate offred vnto idols whyche he wolde y• crysten men sholde forbere, sayth in thys wyse: what say I then that the idoll is any thynge, or that it whyche is offred to idols is any thynge? Nay, but I saye that those thynges whyche the Paynyms offer / they offer to deuyls and not to god, and I wolde not that ye sholde haue any felysshyppe wyth deuyls.

Thys onely texte of saynte Paule is inough to answere all the hole hepe of heretyques, that barke agaynste holy ymagys that good men honour for goddys sake. For saynt Paule here sheweth that the cause why the worshyppynge of idols was vnlefull amonge the gentyles or Paynyms / was bycause that the worshyppe y• was done to those idols, was done to deuylys. And why, but for bycause that it was done to those idols for the loue and honour that they bare to those deuyls, whom they called goddes, and whom those idols represented.

But so it is on the tother syde, that good folke whyche worshyppe ymages of Cryste and hys sayntes: do worshyp therby Cryste and hys sayntes whome those ymagys represente. wherfore it foloweth that lyke wyse as the p[…]yms worshyppers of idols dyd euyll in the worshyppynge of them, bycause that in the worshyppynge of them they worshypped deuyls: ryght so do the crysten men well in y• worshyppynge of ymages, bycause th[…]t in the worshyppyng of ymages they worshyppe Cryste and hys holy sayntes. And now ye se good crysten readers that thys one place of say[…] Paule so playnly reproueth all these heretykes that […] agaynst ymagys / that sauyng they be […]hamelesse, they shold neuer loke any man in the face for shame.

But Tyndale to blynde the reader wyth / hath corrupted in his translacyon all this place of saynte Paule also, and hathe in euery place put oute idole and sette in ymage / to make the reader wene that saynte Paule speke all this agaynste ymages / whych he so speketh agaynst y• paynyms idoles, that his reason which he maketh agaynst them, doth op[…]nly commende and conforme the crysten wurshyppynge of holy sayntes ymages. And here maye ye se what a trewe translacyon Tyndales is, and for what purpose he translateth yt false / and god prouydeth that the scrypture which he falsyfyeth, openly fyghteth agaynste hym.

This pageaunt hath he played also shamefully falsyfyenge saynt Paule in the secunde chapyter to the Romayns / where sait Paule sayth to y• Iewes: Thou abhorrest idols and robbest god of his honour / meanyng that though they abhorted the paynem idoles, & wolde not worshyppe theyr false goddes that were deuyls: yet for all that, they by the brekynge of goddes law wyth theyr euyll lyuyng, they toke away the honour fro god, i[…] causynge hym and his law to be dyshonorably spoken of amonge the paynyms.

Now commeth me Tyndale, and in dyspyght of holy ymages he hath translated that place in this wyse: Thou abhorrest ymages and takest from god his honour. Here ye se Tyndales trewth lo. Dyd saynte Paule say so? dyd saynt Paule meane so? dyd the Iewes abhorre ymages? they abhorted idoles but not ymages. They abhorred not in y• arch the images of the angeles[…] though the abhorted abrode the idoles of deuyls. But Tyndales translacyon of this place may meruelousely well be sayed vn hym selfe: Thou abhorrest ymages Tyndale and takeste the honour fro god / for thou woldest haue vs set Crystes ymage at nought, whiche wythout goddes disho[…]our we can not do.

what shyft shall Tyndale fynde now? wyll he saye that idoles and ymages be all one, bycause that idoles be a kynd of ymages, and ymage is a terme indyfferent to good and badde. For a man may saye and image of the deuyll as well as an ymage of god.

Tyndale shall I thynke fynde no reader so slē […]erly wytted to su[…]er hym skape so. For though idoles be of y• kynde of ymages / yet syth they be such a specyall kynde, as alway to crysten mēnys eares do sygnyfy euyll ymages & deuelyshe: he maye not in trāslacyon change ye name into ye generall, wherby yt may not be ꝑceyued of which kynd he speketh. For this were very nought if he dyd it in fauour of ye worse kynd, to make mē wene it were better. And now whē he doth it in hatered of y• better kynd to make mē wene it worse / ye is to wit in dispyght of ye images of god incarnate, & of his holy sayntes, to make thē seme idoles: he doth an hūdred tymes worse. For he were not so wreched by an hōdred fold as wreched as he were / ye nedys wolde in his fonde fashyon loue god & the deuyll to gether as he ye wold loue neyther nother.

And if ye Tyndale wold styffely stykke in this poynt & abide ther by / yt his trāslacyon of idole in to ymage is good inough because idols be images: thē syth ye deuils be angels as in dede they be by nature, & euyll angels be angels styll / Tyndale maye at his pleasure trāslate ye deuyl in to angell without any other addiciō where so euer he fynd hym thorow out all the bible. And then shall he do theri as dyd a lyke lerned pste/ye thorow out all ye gospels scraped out diabolus & wrote Iesus Cristus, bycause he thought ye deuyls name was not mete to stande in so good a place. And thus I thynke yt euery child may now ꝑceyue / with how litle lernyng & lesse wit, & leste trewth, Tyndale hath translated this word ecclesia in to congregaciō in stede of chyrch / & yt he hath so substancyally defended yt, y• in the mayntenaunce of one false foly, he is now founden in twayne. For by a lyke maner as he falsely translated ecclesia in to ye vnknowen name of cōgregacyon, in such places as he shold haue translated yt in to ye holy knowē name of chyrch, & y• he this hath done of a malicyouse purpose to set forth his heresy of y• secret vnknowē chyrch, wherin is neyther good workes nor sacramentes: so is it now ꝓued yt in the same wyse & of lyke malyce, hath he trāslated idoles in to ymages, vnder the colour of the lykenes of false goddes & deuylles, to make the scripture seme to reproue ye godly ymages of our sauyour hym selfe & his holy sayntes. And now vsynge hym self in his trāslacyon in such malycyouse & erronyous fashyon: he cōplayneth yt good men haue burned his euyll translated bokes, and wyll not suffer his heresyes to go forwarde.

In the ende of this chapyter Tyndale telleth me, yt I haue ben so longe vsed in my fygures of poetry / that whē I erre most, I do now as he supposeth by reason of a lōg custume, byleue my self y• I say most trew / or ellys as wise peple whē they daūce naked in a net, byleue yt no mā se thē: euē so he saith y• I thynke myn errours so subtilly couched, yt no man cā spie thē. As for myn errours how subtilly they be cowched I cā not tell / nor what other mē […]spie I cā not say. But surely if I coud spye any i my writīg my self: I wold not faile both to cōfesse it to god & y• world & forsake it. Now yf I be by custume of poetrye so blynded, that I can not se myne errours but wene that niy lyes were trew: yet yf I fynde any that can shewe them me, I shall sone amende the fawte. But I haue one good lykelyhed that I do not erre or lye after suche fashyon as Tyndale telleth me / in that yf it so were, Tyndale thā that pryeth there vppō so narowly, and wyth suche egles eyen as he hath, were very lykely to spye it / namely syth I go so bare dawnsyng naked in a net. And I am sure yf he spyed any such thynge in me / he wolde of hys charyte be so god to me as to tell me. But surely he hath spyed none yet. For all that he hath hytherto pored out and called myne errours be but hys owne, & tourne vppon hys owne toppe euerychone. And as for my poetry verely I can lytell ellys, & yet not that neyther. But it had ben good for Tyndales sowle and a thowsande sowles besyde / that he had medled but wyth poetrye in stede of holy scrypture all the dayes of hys lyfe. For of poetrye though there sholde haue comen lytell good / yet coude there neuer haue comen suche an hepe of harme to crysten people, as he hath of hys blynde malyce brought in to this realme by his vntrue trāslatynge, and more vntrew construyng of the holy scrypture of god / moste malycyousely makynge the blessed worde of god, to serue hym for an instrumēt to dryue mē to ye deuyll.

And yet yf poetrye be as Tyndale calleth it, nothynge but faynynge and lyenge: then is he connynge inough and can I assure you make as mych poetry vppon any parte of scrypture, as any poete can in englande vppon any parte of Uirgill. And he vseth in his wrytyng mych playne poetrye, wherwith he daunseth na[…]ed not all in a net / but for y• more parte so starke naked wythout any nette at all, that there is not the bredthe of a sylken threde to couer his poetry / of whyche poyntes of hys playne open poetry I haue shewed you some all redy, and shall anon shewe you many mo.

Then he asketh me why I haue not cōtended with Erasmus whom he calleth my derlynge, of all thys longe whyle for translatynge of thys worde ecclesia in to thys worde congregatio. And then he cometh forth wyth hys fete proper taunte, that I […]auour hym of lykelyhed for makynge of hys boks of Maris in my howse. There had he hyt melo saue for lakke of a lytell salte. I haue not contended wyth Erasmus my derlynge, bycause I found no suche malycyouse entent wyth Erasmus my derlynge, as I fynde wyth Tyndale. For had I fownde wyth Erasmus my derlyng the shrewde entent and purpose that I fynde in Tindale: Erasmus my derlynge sholde be no more my derlynge. But I fynde in Erasmus my derlynge that he detesteth and abhorreth the errours and heresyes that Tyndale playnely techeth and abydeth by / and therfore Erasmus my derlynge shall be my dere derlyng styll. And surely yf Tyndale had eyther neuer taughte them, or yet had the grace to reuoke them: then sholde Tyndale be my dere derlynge to. But whyle he holdeth such heresies stylle / I can not take for my derlyng hym that the deuyll taketh for hys derlynge.

Now for hys translacyon of ecclesia by congregatio/hys dede is nothynge lyke Tyndals. For ye laten tonge had no laten word byfore vsed for the chyrche, but the greke word ecclesia/therfore Erasmus in hys new translacyon gaue it a laten worde. But we had in englysshe a proper englysshe worde therfore / and therfore was no suche cause for Tyndale to chaunge it in to a worse. Erasmus also ment none heresye therein as appereth by hys wrytynge agaynste heretykes / but Tyndale entended no thynge ellys thereby as appereth by the heresyes that hym selfe tea[…]heth and abydeth by. And therfore was there in this mater no cause for me to contende wyth Erasmus, as there was to contende wyth Tyndale wyth whom I contende for puttynge in congregacyon in stede of chyrch / excepte ye Tyndale peraduēture meaneth that I sholde haue ben angry wyth Erasmus bycause that in stede of congregacyon in hys laten translacyon, he hadde not put in our englysshe worde chyrche.

As touchyng Moria in which Erasmus vnder the name and person of Moria, whyche worde in greke sygnyfyeth f[…]ly / doth merely to wche and reproue suche fawtes and fol[…]es as he founde in any kynde of people / perusynge euery state and condycyon spyrytuall and temporall, leuynge all moste none vnto wched / by whych boke Tyndale sayth that yf it were in englysshe, euery man sholde then w[…]ll se that I was then ferre otherwyse mynded then I now wryte: y[…] thys be trew, then the more cause haue I to thanke god of amendemēt. But surely this is v[…]ew. For god be thanked I neuer hadde that mynde in my lyfe to haue holy sayntes ymages or theyr holy relykes out of reuerence. Nor yf there were any suche thynge in Moria: that thyng coude not […] make any man se, that I were my selfe of that mynde / the boke beynge made by a nother man though he were my derlynge neuer so dere. […]ow be it that boke of Moria doeth in dede but ieste vppon the abuses of suche thynges, after the māner of the dysours parte in a playe, & yet not so farre neyther by a greate deale, as the messenger doth in my dyalog / whyche I haue yet suffered to stande styll in my dyaloge, & yt rather yet by the counsayle of other men then of my selfe.

For all be yt that yt be lawfull to any man to mysselyke the mysseuse of euery good thynge / and that in my dyaloge there not onely those euyll thynges rehersed but answered also and soyled / and the goodnes of the thyng self well vsed is playnely confyrmed and proued: yet hath Tyndale by erronyouse bokes in settynge forth Luthers pestylent heresyes, so enuenemed the hartes of lewdly disposed persones / y• men can not almost now speke of such thynges in so mych as a play, but yt such euyll herers wax a grete dele ye worse.

And therfore in these dayes in which Tyndale hath (god amende hym) wyth thenfeccion of his cōtagyouse heresyes, so sore poysened malycyouse and newfangle folke / that the kynges hyghnes and not wythout the coūsayle and aduyce not of his nobles onely, wyth his other counsaylours attendynge vppon his gracys person / but also of the ryght vertuouse and specyall well lerned men of eyther vnyuersyte & other partyes of the realme specyally called thereto, hathe after dylygent and longe consyderacyon hadde therein, ben fayne for the whyle to prohybyte the scrypture of god to be sufferd in englyshe tonge amonge the peoples handes / leste euyll folke by false drawyng of euery good thynge they rede in to the colour and mayntenaūs of theyr owne fonde fantasyes, and turnynge all hony in to posyn, myght both dedly do hurte vnto theym selfe, and sprede also that infeccyone farther a brode: I saye therfore in these dayes in whyche men by theyr owne defaute mysseconstre and take harme of the very scrypture of god, vntyll menne better amende, yf any man wolde now translate Moria in to Englyshe, or some workes eyther that I haue my selfe wryten ere this, […]ll […]e yt there be none harme therin / folke yet beynge (as they be) geuen to take harme of that that is good / I wolde not on[…]y my derlynges bokes but myne owne also, helpe to burne th[…] both wyth myne owne handes, rather then folkesh […] (though thorow theyr own faute) take any harme of them, seynge that […]se[…]he[…] lykely in these dayes so to do.

But now after this Tyndale handeleth me full vncourtesly / for he taketh awaye all my thanke and rewarde that I sholde haue had of the spyrytualtye. For he sheweth them that I wrote not my boke for any affeccyon that I bere to them / no more then Iudas bytrayed Cryst for any fauour yt he bare to the hygh prestes, scrybes, and pharaseys: but yt I dyd the tone as he dyd the tother, for the lucre that shold come therof / after whych he sayth that I so sore hungre, yt the good man as my frend prayeth for me that I eat not to faste for chokynge.

Now yf the spyritualtye had ben aboute to haue gathered a dysme amonge them and geue yt me: Tyndale here had loste yt me euery peny. But god forgeue the good man and I do. For whē he speketh of my lucre / in good fayth he maketh me laugh / and so I wene he maketh many mo to, that knowe well god be thanked yt I haue not so mych lucre therby, that I stande in so grete parell of chokynge wyth lucre, as Tyndale standeth in daunger of chokynge (god saue the man) wyth the bones of buttred bere.

Now where Tyndale sayth I haue fayntely defended ye thynges wherof I wryte: the thynges be stronge inough and lytle nede me to defend them / and also my purpose was not so mych to do that that neded not, that is to wyt to defende them / as to proue and make the people perceyue that Tyndale went aboute to brynge in heresyes amonge them. And that nedeth now as lytle / for Tyndale hath proued yt hym selfe.

And so lytle defence suffyseth for any reason yt Tyndale layeth agaynste yt. And fynally yf I were faynte therin as Tyndale sayth: yet is a faynt fayth better then a stronge heresye.

But Tyndale yet for all this as a good godly father of his haboundaunte cheryte, sayth that he charytably dothe exhorte me in Cryste by the examples of Iudas and Balaam to take hede / and ferther he counsayleth me and my felowes full holyly to awake by tymes ere euer our synnes be rype, leste the voyce of oure wykkednesse ascende vp and awake god out of his slepe to loke vppō vs and to bowe hys earys vnto our cursed blasphemyes agaynst the open trewth / and to sende hys herueste men and mowars of vengeaunce to repe it, excepte we repent and resyste not the spyryte of god, whyche openeth lyght vnto the worlde.

These wordes when I redde them, semed me so pytthy & so persaunt, set and cowched in suche an hyghe spyrytuall fasshyon / that they made me mych to meruayle what Tyndale had spyed in me, and caused me to serche my selfe, to se whyther I had vsed any suche hygh blasphemyes, that the wykkednes therof were lykely to ascende vp in to heuyn & awake god almyghty out of hys slepe. But when I hadde ouer serched all my boke & ransaked vp ye very botom of my brest / though I foūde in ye tone som prety peccaduliūs, such as I wyll not now confesse to father Tyndale bycause he sayth confessours kepe no counsayle: yet coude I fynde in good fayth neyther in my brest nor in my boke I thāke god any suche hygh blasphemyes as Tyndale so hyghly cryeth out vppon, excepte he call it an hygh blasphemye to call heresyes heresyes / whyche I take as helpe me god in my pore conscyence for none hygher blasphemy, then to call a gose a gose. Nor I. fynde no trewth that I neyther blaspheme or onys speke agaynste, excepte Tyndale mene by thys open trewth all the false open heresyes that hym selfe techeth agaynste Crystes holy sacramentes. Agaynst whyche kynde of false trewth I no more fere to speke / then agaynst the deuyll hym selfe that fyrste founde it out. Nor I can not fynde wherein I resyste the spyryte of god in openynge hys lyght vnto the worlde / excepte that Tyndale take for the spyryte of god, the spyryte of the deuyll of hell / and for openynge of lyght vnto the worlde, he take the lyghtesome lanterne of good ensample / by whych the worlde maye se for a shewe of holy matrymony, frere Luther and Cate calate hys nonne lye luskynge togyther in l[…]chery. Now to resyste thys deuelysshe spyryte my pore spyryte, for all Tyndales hygh ferefull charge is so lytell afrayed / that I call hartely to ye spyryte of god to quenche the fowle fyrebronde of that helly lyght, & that so thorowly that the worlde se neuer any suche example more.

And now when that I had thus thorowly serched well my breste and my boke, and saw my conscyence clere, farre out of any suche cause of ieoperdy: then Tyndals terryble exorcysme made me not mych to trymble / syth heretykes haue of olde be wont alwaye to vse suche wordes. But my mind more gaue me to laughe at his hygh solemne charge / wh[…]rby he […] wyth hys straunge wordes enchaunt and charme […], and […] wene he were walkynge downe to helle quykke, yf he made so mych as a mumme agaynst Luthers lechery.

Now where as Iudas and Balaam were not mete samples for me, that bere my self neyther for an apostle nor for a prophete: I myghte here laye them bothe well for playne samples to hym that bereth hym selfe for a ryghte apostle that were sent to preche a new fayth to thys realme, and a newe euangelyste to, that maketh with his false translacyō newe scrypture of hys owne / & very proprely playeth he the parte of Balaam to, in that he laboreth to brynge maledyccyons vppon Hierusalem, that is the catholyke chyrche of Cryste. And here myghte I brynge hym other samples in also very mete for the mater of menne mych lyke hym selfe, heretykes I mene of olde tyme & some of later dayes not longe afore Luther. And when I had rehersed vp a Ragmans roll of a […]able of heretykes, and shewed a shrewed sorte that cam to sorow for theyr synne: then myght I lo yf I had Tyndals spyryte, spet out scrypture apace & exhorte Tyndale agayn holily, to take hede & beware by tyme lest like heresies & like malyce brynge hym to lyke myschyefe. But as for me I can no suche facyon / and therfore lettyng all such hygh processe passe, of rype synnys, and ascendyng to heuyn and wakyng god out of slepe, and set hym on husbandry, and dryue hym to heruest wyth mowers of vengeaunce and repers of rype synnys, leuynge Tyndale in hys vengeable parables: I cā no more I, but praye god amende hym and make hym a good man.