Answere vnto the chapyter of Tyndale, in whiche he wold proue that the knowen catholyke chyrche is not ye chyr
YE haue all redy good chrysten readers well seen and perceyued, that Tyndale hath in a longe processe labored to proue you, that the chyrch of Cryste is a nother company then the knowen catholyke cō pany of all chrysten regyons / that is to wytte a certayne secrete scatered congregacyon vnknowen to all the worlde besyde, and to theyr owne felowes to / and euery man by hys inwarde felynge not onely knowen onely to hym selfe, but also so well and surely knowen vnto hym selfe for a vertuouse good and faythefull fynall electe of god, that he is in hym selfe very certayne and sure that he can not be but saued / and that he so hath the spyryte of god imprysoned in hys breste and so faste fetered in hys holy harte, wherof hym selfe hath loste the kayeá, that neyther the spyryte can crepe out nor hym selfe lette hym out by no maner meane / but there muste the spyryt abyde and so preserue and kepe that specyall chosen creature, that he suffer hym to do many great abomynable horryble deuelysshe dedys, but yet neuer suffer hym in no wyse to do any dedely synne.
Thys I saye ye haue all redy seen, that Tyndale hath by a longe processe labored mych to proue vs / and hath in cōclusyon not onely no thynge proued vs therof, but hath in stede of felynge faythfull folke, brought vs forth suche a sort, as neuer was there puddynge stuffed so full of farsynge, as hys holy felynge faythfull folke are farsed full of heresyes.
wherfore seynge that for the very chyrche of Cryste here in erth, whyche god hath and euer shall instructe and preserue in hys trewe fayth and out of the fayth of whyche chyrch shall neyther be trewe fayth hope nor cherite / he can when he hath all done fynde out none other, then thys comon knowen catholyke chyrche of all chrysten people, neyther of malyce gone out nor for obstinacy put out / of which comon knowen catholyke chyrche, all the good and trewe penytent electes be parteners in fayth: seynge I saye that he can proue none other chyrche, he now gothe aboute to dysproue that chyrche to / wherby we maye well perceyue that he goeth not aboute to fynde out the chyrche, but rather to make men to wene that there were no chyrch at all.
About thys purpose vseth he now thys order. Fyrste in one chapyter he taketh vppon hym to proue yt the knowen catholyke chyrche is not the chyrche of Cryste.
Afterwarde in hys other chapyters folowynge, he pretendeth to answere and soyle the reasons, wyth whyche it is proued that the knowen catholyke chyrche is the chyrche of Cryste, and that none of these sectes of heretykes be.
And yet pretendynge as I say that he wyll soyle all the reasons of the tother syde / of so many as there are he towcheth onely twayne / and yet those twayne how symple he soyleth, that shall you after se.
Let vs now go to Tyndals fyrste poynte / whych poynt in hys fyrste chapyter how falsely he handeleth and how farre fro the poynt, it is euyn a world to se. For fyrst he maketh the tytle before hys chapyter in thys wyse.
Tyndale. Whyther the pope and his secte be Crystes chyrche or no.
More. well ye wote good chrysten readers, that I (whose dyaloge in the begynnyng of hys wurke he professeth hym selfe wyth all hys hole boke to answere) haue in places inough well and playnely declared, that I call the chyrche of Cryste the catholyke knowen chyrche of all chrysten nacyons, neyther gone out nor cut of. And all be it that all these nacyons now do and longe haue done, recognysed & knowleged the pope, not as the byshop of rome but as the successoure of saynt Peter, to be theyr chyefe spyrytuall gouernour vnder god, and Chrystes vycar in erth / and so do not onely we call hym but Tyndalys owne felowe frere Barns to: yet dyde I neuer put the pope for parte of the dyffynycyon of the chyrche, dyffynyng the chyrche to be the comon knowen congregacyon of all chrysten nacyons vnder one hed the pope.
Thus dyd I neuer defyne the chyrche / but purposely declyned therfro, bycause I wolde not intryke & entangle the mater wyth two questyons at onys. For I wyste very well that the chyrche beynge proued thys comon knowen catholyke congregacyon of all chrysten nacyons, abydyng to gyther in one fayth, neyther fallen of nor cut of: there myghte be peraduenture made a secunde questyon after y•, whyther ouer all that catholyke chyrche the pope muste nedes be hed and chyefe gouernour or chyefe spyrytuall shepherde / or ellys that ye vnyon of fayth standyng among them all, euery prouynce myghte haue theyr owne chyefe spyrytuall gouernour ouer it selfe, wythout any recourse vnto the pope, or any superyoryte recognysed to any other outwarde person.
And then yf the pope were or no pope / but as I say prouyncyall patryarches, arbysshoppes, or metropolytanes, or by what name so euer the thynge were called: what authoryte & what power eyther he or they sholde haue among the people, these thynges well I wyste wolde rayse among many men many mo questyons then one. For the aduoydyng of all intrycacyō wherof / I purposely forbare to put in the pope as parte of the dyffynycyon of the chyrche, as a thynge that neded not / syth yf he be the necessary hed, he is included in the name of the hole body. And whyther he be or not / yf it be brought in questyon, were a mater to be treated and dysputed besyde.
And therfore maye y[…] good chrysten readers se, yt Tyndale whyche in thys poynte wyll in no wyse perceyue me, but maketh the tytle of hys chapyter whyther the pope and hys secte be chrystes chyrche or no / laboreth to fle fro the lyght, and hyde hys hed in the darke, and confounde the mater wyth two, questyons at onys.
Now is not the tytle of hys chapyter so synystrely wryten and wryed awaye from the poynt / but the begynnynge of hys chapyter it selfe, is mych worse and forther wrested wronge. For lo thus he begynneth.
Tyndale. That the pope and his spirites be not the chyrche maye this wyse be proued.
More. Lo before in the tytle he made hys questyon of the pope and hys secte, whyche questyon as I haue shewed you he framed farre from the mater / and syth those people whych Tyndale calleth ye popys secte (by whych name he meneth all that professe the comon catholyke fayth) be all the nacyons chrystened, excepte a few late fallen to Luther, wyclyffe, frere Huskyn, and zuynglius: how fyttly he vseth his termes in callynge all the body a secte, whyche he myghte as well call a scysme, for bothe sygnyfye a cuttyng of from the hole chyrche / and then as well he maye and so doth he soone after, call the heretykes y• chyrche / and therin calleth he bothe twayne as properly, as yf he wolde cut of a cantell or a gobbet from an hole lofe, and then call the cantell a lofe and the lofe a cantell.
But where as before in the tytle he made as I saye hys questyon of the pope and hys secte / here he turneth it into the pope and hys spyrytes. In whyche excepte he call spyrytes in mocke & scorne / all chrysten nacyons besydes those corners that professe them selfe for heretykes / he muste nedes mene here by hys scornefull name of spyrytes, onely the pope and the spyrytualtye / and then goeth he yet mych forther fro me wyth whom he sholde cope. For I call euer the chyrche whyche hys parte is here to impugne, not the spyrytualtye onely, but the hole corps and body of spyrytuall and temporall to.
And Tyndale very well woteth, that the spyrytualtye so farforth doth accompte not them selfe alone but the temporaltye, and them selfe to gether for the catholyke chyrch / that there is not so pore a frere, but he professyth it almost in euery sermone. In whyche when he exhorteth hys audyence to praye for the chyrche, he sayth not ye shall praye for the spyrytualtye alone / but ye shall saythe he praye for the thre estates of holy chyrche, that is to wytte the spyrytualty the temporalty and the sowles that be in purgatory. For though they be departed out of our cōpany, yet them compte we styll for viagers and pylgrymmes in the same pylgrymage that we be towarde the same place of rest and welth that we walke, tyll they be passed ones all the payne of theyr iournaye, and entred into the blesse of heuen.
Nowe it is a greate shame for Tyndale to flye fro the poynte as he dothe, in a mater so playne and open, that euery chylde maye se how lothe he is to comme nere and cope.
But Tyndale hath all redy ryden so many shrewed courses, in whyche he hath hadde suche buffettes, that he hath almoste broken hys horses backe and hys owne to / that now neyther is there bere nor heretyke more lothe to come to the stake, then Tyndale to come nere the tylte.
And therfore drawynge a syde and flyttynge from the chyrche, that is to wytte frome the hole multytude of all chrysten nacyons spyrytuall and temporall bothe, whiche is the tylte by whyche he hath to ronne: he standythe styll at the tyltes ende tymperynge and temperynge aboute his harneys, and wyll no forther then the spyrytualtye / but putteth of hys helmet and doeth on a folys hode, and from iustynge falleth to iestynge, to do the people pleasure, and dreue awaye the mater wyth makynge of mockes and mowes. For now lo shall we peruse hys proues. Lo thys wyse reason he bryngeth in the fyrste.
Tyndale. That the pope and his spyrytes be not the chyrche, maye thy[…] wy[…]e be pr[…] ued. He that hath no fayth to be saued thorow Cryste, is not of Crystes chyrche. The pope […]eueth not to be saued thorowe Cryste. For he teacheth to truste in holy workes for the remys[…]yon of synnes and sa[…]uacy[…]n / as in the workes of penaunce enioyned, in vowes, in pylgrymage, in ch[…]styte, in other mennes prayers and holy lyuynge, in freres and freres cotes, in sayntes merytes. And the sygnyficacyons put out / he teacheth to byleue in the dedes of the ceremonyes, and of the sacramente; ordeyned at the begynnynge, to preache vnto vs and to do vs seruyce / and not that we sholde beleue in them and serue them. And a thousande suche superstycy[…]usnesse setteth he before vs in stede of Cryste, to byleue in neyther Cryste nor goddes worde, neyther honourable to god nor seruysable vnto our neyghbour, nor profytable vn to our selues for the tamyng of the flesshe, whiche all are the denyenge of Crystes blode.
More. Some man wolde here peraduenture saye to Tyndale, that he playeth in thys poynte the very folysshe dysour, for the faute of the man to rayle vpon the offyce / consyderyng that all be it there haue popes bene that haue euyll played theyr partes, yet haue there ben popes agayne ryghte holy men sayntes and martyrs to / and therfore in iestynge thus vppon a good offyce for an euyll offycer, he canne lacke no mater of raylynge, but maye runne out in hys rybaldry at large, and saye that all the hole worlde muste leue of all maner of offyces, and neyther haue pope, emperour, kynge, counsaylour, mayre, shyryffe, nor alderman to gouerne or rule the comons, nor yet any man in hys owne howse stewarde, cater, pantler, butler, or cooke. For among all these offyces there can be founden none, that hath not had ere thys many an yll man in the rome.
Therfore wolde some man thynke I saye, that Tyndals raylynge here vppon the pope were all ronne out of reason, though that all the thynges whyche he layeth here to hys charge, were in dede as euyll as Tyndale wolde haue them taken. But surely syth the man hath fawtes inough besyde / I wyll my selfe defende hym well in thys. For thys wyll I well make good in his byhalfe, that yf the fawtes for whyche he rayleth here vpon the pope, be thynges noughte in dede and worthy to be rebuked / then maye he well and lawfully ryally ieste and rayle vppon the hole pedegre of popes, saynt Peter hym selfe and all. For surely the thynges for ye techynge wherof Tyndale rebuketh here the pope, hath euer ben the doctryne of popes, patriarches, prophetes, apostles, and our sauyour hym selfe and all.
For fyrste he proueth vs that the pope byleueth not to be saued thorow Christ, bycause he techeth to truste in holy workes for remyssyon of synnes and saluacyō. Is not here a peryllous lesson trow ye / namely so taught as the chyrch techeth it, that no good work can be done wythout helpe of goddes grace, nor no good worke of man worthy the rewarde of heuen but by the lyberall goodnesse of god, nor yet sholde haue suche a pryce sette vppon it saue thorowe the merytes of Crystes bytter passyon / and that yet in all our dedes we be so vnperfyt, yt eche man hath good cause to fere for hys owne parte, leste his beste be badde. I wolde wene that good workes were not so dedely poyson / but takynge not to myche at onys for cloyenge of the stomake, no more at onys lo then I se the worlde wont to do many drammes of suche tryacle myxed with one scruple of drede, were able inough for awght that I can se so to preserue the soule fro presumpcyon, that one sponefull of good workes sholde no more kylle the soule, then a potager of good wurtes sholde kylle and stroye the body.
The scrypture byddeth vs watche, and faste, and pray,1 and gyue almoyse, and forgyue our neyghbour / & we pore men that lacke the hyghe spyrytuall syghte that Tyndale hath and hys holy electys, take these thynges for good workes. And god sayth in hys holy wrytte, that he wyll forgeue our synnes the rather for them, and wyll rewarde vs for them, & thorow the scrypture / thys cryeth god in our earys, and faythfully promyseth almost in euery lefe. And now ye se Tyndale that precheth so faste of the fayth and truste of goddes promyses, wolde haue vs in these p[…]omyses trust god nothyng at all.
But herein is great peryll,2 specyally to hope and truste to gete any good at goddes hand for y workes of pena[…]e enioyned. For the sacrament of penaunce is to Tyndale a great abomynacion, and therin in dede he sayth somwhat. For well ye wote euyn of naturall reason, a wyse man wyll sone se, that syth the punysshement that a man wylfully taketh for the synne that he hath done commeth of an angre and dyspleasure that he bereth towarde hym selfe for the dyspleasure that hys synne hath done to god / and that h[…]s wyllyng submyttyng of hym selfe to the correccyon of hys goostly father, commeth of great humylyte gyuen by go[…] and taught by all good men: god muste nedes there[…]o[…]e perde bothe be angry and abhorre all them, that for the frutes of these good affections can hope for any fauour grace or pardone at hys mercyfull hande.
If Tyndale lyste to loke in sainte Austayn in his boke of penaunce / he shall there fynde that holy doctour & […] byd euery man put hym self whole in hys con[…]ssours had[…] and humbly receyue and fulfyll such penaunce as he shall enioyne hym.
But than doth Tyndale specyally touch,3 that ye church techeth to put trust in vowys and in chastyte / for that is a thyng in the earys of Luthers electes of all thynges mo[…] abomynable. But the churche techeth none other tru[…] therin, than the scrypture doth hy[…] selfe, and oure bl[…]s[…]d sauyour hym selfe.
They teche sayth Tyndale,4 to truste in other mennes prayours and holy lyuyng, in freres and in freres cotys. Is nat here an abomynable synne, that any man shulde haue so lytle pryde in hym selfe, that he shuld thynke other men moche better than hym selfe, and therfore desyr[…] th[…]m to pray for hym to, besyde hym selfe. In howe many places doth the scrypture exhort eche of vs to pray for other. And whan the scrypture sayth that the dylygent prayoure of a iuste man is moche worth / shuld we than truste nothynge therin,5 but thynke that it were ryght nought worth at all / or bycause the scrypture so commendeth the prayour of a good man, shuld we lyke hys prayour the lesse for his holy lyuynge, & byd hym pray nat for vs but yf he lyue nought / or if he be a frere and go in a freres cote, bydde hym praye nat for vs, tyll he put of hys frerys cote and put on a frese cote, and ru[…]ne out of hys ordre, an catche hym a quene & call her hys wyfe?
Than goeth he from good lyuers in erth vnto sayntes in heuyn / & fyndeth yet more faute, in that men are taught to go in any pylgrymage, or do any worshyp to them, or to thynke that theyr good lyuyng was so pleasaūt vnto god whyle they lyued here in erth, that he wyll therfore vouchesaufe to do any thynge at theyr requeste for any louer of theyres, whyle they be wyth hym in heuyn.
Howe be it in thys poynt I dare be bolde to say for Tyndale my selfe, that he is nat so folysh, but that he seeth well I nough that if I may well pray my neyghbur to pray for me that is here wyth me in erthe / I may moche better pray the sayntes pray for me that are with god in heuyn / sauing that he byleueth that they be nat there, nor neyther here vs nor se vs, but lye styll as Luther sayth a slepe. And therfore Tyndale leste we myghte wene that he byleued well, byddeth vs in another place of hys boke, that when we mete ye sayntes and talke wyth any of them, than lette vs hardely knele and make our prayour to them. And so ye shall natte nede to meruayle moche though thys man be bolde to ieste and rayle vpon euery man here in erth, when he fereth nat to make mokkes and mowys at the blessed sayntes in heuyn.
He blameth vs and bylieth vs, as though we toke theyr dede ymagys for quyke. But hym selfe semeth yet moche worse in dede,6 that taketh goddes quykke saintes for dede, agaynst Chrystes owne wordes declarynge the contrary, bothe by the scrypture in the gospell of saynte Mathew, & by the story that Chryste also telleth of Habraam and the ryche gloton and Lazare in the.xvi. chapytre of Luke.7
Than commeth Tyndale in at the laste wyth the ceremonyes of the church and the sacramentes / agaynst which prykke he specyally spurneth wyth hys kyb[…]de hele, but it wyll nat helpe hym. The gentleman is so proude, that the holy sacramentes muste be his waytynge seruauntes. For now he sayth that they be but superstycyouse and serue of noughte, but be sette in stede of Cryste, and are (as they be taught) the denyenge of Crystes bloude.
How sholde they now be the denyeng of Crystes bloud, when the chyrche teacheth vs as god hath taught it, that they all haue theyr strength by Crystes bloude, and that in the tone of them is Crystes owne very bloude and hys blessed body bothe. Bothe whyche thys heretyke denyeth / and as in my fyrste boke I shewed yow, bothe iesteth and scoffeth vppon the precyouse body and bloude of Cryste in the blessed sacrament of the aulter / and lyke a madde frantyke fole maketh mokkes and mowys at the masse.
And now that ye se good chrysten reders for what doctryne Tyndale rebuketh the comon catholyke chyrche / ye can not but therby perceyue what doctryne he wolde haue them teche / that is to wytte that we shold haue no respecte to good workes, vse no shryfte nor penaunce, beware of chastyte and blesse vs well therfro, let no good men praye for vs, nor none that vse holy lyuynge, no Francysce frere bydde any bede for vs in hys freres cote, tyll he do of hys graye garmentes and cloth hym selfe cumly in gaye kendall grene / sette sayntes at nought, and all holy ceremonyes vsed in goddes seruyse, and als the seuen sacramētes to / make mokkes at the masse and at Crystes body, and take it for nothynge but cake brede or starche. And when the clergye techeth this onys / then shall they be the chyrch, But for lakke of this doctryne, they be no parte therof. For Tyndale telleth vs that tyll they teche vs thus / they can […]euer byleue to be saued thorowe Cryste. And I saye me semeth as I be saued thorowe Cryste, yf Tyndale laye madde in the myddes of Bedlem, he coulde not to good chrysten men telll a more frantyke tale. And thys fransey is hys fyrste reason. Now let vs here hys seconde.
Footnotes
Chapter 8 of 15