The thyrde reason

Tyndale. Therto all chrysten men yf they haue done amys, repent when theyr fautes be tolde them. The spyrytualtye repent not but of very su[…] and con[…]te t[…] synne, persecute both the scrypture wherwith they be re[…], and […] […]m that warne them to amende and make heretykes o[…] th[…]m and burn[…] t[…]em. And besydes that the pope hath made a playne decre, […] deth sayenge, Though the pope synne neuer so greu[…]us[…], and […] hym to hell by hys ens[…]mple thousandes innumerable […] hardy to rebuke hym[…] Por he is hede ouer all, and none […]uer hym[…] […]. xl. Si papa.

More. Here he proueth vs that the spyrytualtye be not of the chyrche / for none is of the chyrche but repentauntes. And then all chrysten men he sayeth repente, as soone as theyr fautes be told thē / but the spyrytualty he sayth repent not.

Tyndale hoth now forgete, that he hath ofter thē onys tolde vs here before, that hys owne[…] electes wyll not euer here theyr fautes tolde them at the fyrste whyle they be caryed forth in the rage / but that a man must yf he wyll haue audyēce, tary tyll y• luskus haue played out theyr lustes / & as he sayd in one place, some of theym wyll not gyue eare tyll the very colde fere of deth come. And nowe yf he wyll stande to thys tale, he gyueth the spyrytualtye whom he so sore accus[…]th, a playne answere after hys owne doctryne[…] that he is to hasty vppon them / they maye be of his ow[…]e especyall electes perde fulwell, though they be not con[…]ent to mende yet / but he must suffer them to playe out all theyr lustes, or ellys tyll they come so nere the colde fyre of deth that they fele not one sparke of the warme flesshe, and then speke and he shalbe herde.

How […]e it leuyng hys owne doctryne for hym selfe[…] they maye tell hym that he is somwhat ouer temeraryouse and holde, eyther to iudge so[…] rashely the repentaunce of other men whiche inwardly lyeth in the harte, wherof onely god is the beholder / or ellys to impute and ascrybe the maner and condycyon of some impenitent wretchys, to the who[…]e company of the clergy, whiche vsually declare theym […] repentaunt by shryfte and confessyon of theyr synnes and doynge of penaunce, as all other good chrysten people do.

Now yf Tyndale alledge agaynste theym / that for a[…]l that they falle to dedely synne agayne: we wyll aske hym wherby knoweth he that / and then muste he saye that by some synfull dedes. But then yf he graunte onys, that dedely synfull dedes be a sure fuffycyent profe of dedely synfull myndes: he destroyeth ye wote well all hys owne formar doctryne, concernynge the synnynge and yet not synnynge of his owne holy electes, whyche can he sayth neuer synne dedely do they neuer so hortyble dedes.

And yet as for repentynge / our clergy perde maye well appere more penitent then theyres. For I dare boldely say that excepte some such as be fallen into Luthers and Tyndales chyrch / there is ellys no man so bad of the catholyke chyrche, but he wyll confesse and agre that hys lechery is dedely synne. But on the tother syde, theyr owne clergy & the very great clerkes of theyr clergy, as the greate clerke Luther, and the great clerke Tindale, and the great clerke Huyskyns: yf they be asked whyther the lechery bytwene a frere & a nunne be dedely synne or no, they wyll answere ye wote well that it is none at all / yf they gyue it onys an honest name then is it no synne at all, yf they call it matrymony, but shall haue hell for theyr patrymony. wherof ye se well they repent not a whytte / but they wyll I warraūt you when they come there.

But all theyr excuse lyeth in thys, that all theyr fawtes come but of frayltye / and our spyrytualtye synneth of malyce, bycause they persecut[…] Tyndals holy translacyon of the scrypture, in whyche hym selfe hath playnely confessed that he turned the vsuall englysshe wordes of chyrche, preste, and penaunce, to congregacyon, senyor, and repentaunce, of very purpose to brynge in his heresyes agay[…]st the sacramentes. whych whyle he so dyd of purpose / I am content to wynke therat, and forgete for thys onys that he synned therin of playne purpensed malyce. But yet thys wyll I saye the whyle for our parte, that he hath no good grounde to saye that the persecucyon is malycyouse, done agaynst such a translacyon, so translated of such a shrewd entent and suche a malycyouse purpose.

Now yf he wolde excuse hym selfe from malyce, in that he wold make vs wene that though part be false, hym self myght of weyke wyt and frayle fayth, wene hys heresyes were the trewe bylyefe, bycause of his owne mynde & Luthers & Huyskyns authoryte in the construccyon of scrypture: he muste perde by the same reason excuse our clergy from malyce in persecutynge his heresyes, syth that they maye well wytte, by the authoryte of saynt Austayn, saynt Hierom, saynt Gregory, saynt Ambrose, saynte Cypriane, saynt Basyle, saynt Chrysostome, & all the olde holy sayntes vnto theyr owne dayes, and all the whole catholyke chyrche of Cryste, and by hys holy spyryte gyuen to those holy doctours of his chyrche and euer abydynge therin / that those heresyes whiche Tyndale techeth, that freres may wedde nunnes, and that the sacramentes be but bare tokens and sygnes, and Crystes blessed body at the masse no sacryfyce nor none oblacyon, nor but a bare memoryall in wyne and starche or cakebrede, be very false deuelysshe errours / and in all good chrysten mennes eares, spyghtfully spoken, blasphemouse, and abomynable. And where he sayth that the clergye doth rebuke them by whome they be warned to amende, and doth make heretykes of them & burne them, menynge Hytton peraduenture & suche other as he was / of whiche sorte there hathe of late some be burned in Smythfelde, as Bayfelde, Baynom, and Teuxbery: the clergy maketh them nat heretykes nor burneth them neyther. But Tyndales bokes and theyr owne malyce maketh them heretykes. And for heretikes as they be / the clergy dothe denounce them. And as they be well worthy, the temporaltie dothe burne them. And after the fyre of Smythfelde, hell dothe receyue them / where the wretches burne for euer.

But than he sayeth that the pope neuer repenteth, by[…]use he […] made a playne decre, in whiche he commaundeth sayenge; Thoug[…]e the […] synne neuer so greuously, and drawe wyth hym to hell by hys ensamp[…]e thousandes innumerable / yet let no man be so hardy to rebuke hym. […]or he i[…] hede ouer all, and none ouer hym / Distinct.xl. Si papa.

There are orders in Christes churche, by which a pope may be bothe admonisshed and amended / and hathe be for incortigible mynde and lacke of amendement, finally deposed and chaunged. But that euery lewde lorell vppon euery false tale that he hereth, or peraduenture that hym selfe maketh, shulde haue courage and boldenes to scoffe, geste, and rayle, eyther vpon pope or prince, or a moche more meane estate / is a thinge so lytle commendable, that euery well ordered regyon, hath by playne lawes prohibited & forboden suche rybauldous byhauoure / all thoughe they were able to proue that the thynge whiche they sayde were nothynge false at all. And this thynge hathe euery well ordered realme, nat without good reason prouyded / syth it well appered that were the thing trewe were it false, it were vnsittynge to suffre that maner to be vsed, wherby the gouernours myghte often causeles and falsely be defamed amonge the people. And if the thynge were some tyme peraduenture trewe / yet syth that fassyon & maner can nothinge amende the mater, & therfore is by all lawes forboden to be in suche wise vsed towarde the most symple wretche in all a towne / it were a lewde thinge to suffre any prynce, estate, or gouernour, to be brought in sclaunder amonge the comen people / wherof can come none other effecte or frute, but hatered or contempt planted in theyr hertes towarde theyr rulers and gouernours, whom they be for all that styll bounden bothe to loue and obaye.

And if a man wolde say that great men can nat otherwyse come to the knowlege of theyr owne fautes: ye may be sure that if the thyngꝭ be trewe wherof the people talke, they knowe theyr dedes them selfe before the people here of them. And if the same be false / yet may many men haue it in theyr mouthes before it come at the princes eare / and yet whan he hereth it syth the same is fayned, what good can he do thereby. And if percase any man thinke that the prynces them selfe perceyue nat theyr fautes for fautes / tyll they here the people murmure and wondre at theym: surely right seldome happes it that a man coulde nat perceyue that thynge for a faute, whiche were in dede so great that it were worthy for all the people to wonder at. And yet if priuate affection towarde theyr owne fantasies, happened in any thynge so far to myslede theyr iudgemente / for helpe of suche happes serue their confessours and coū saylours / & euery man that of good mynde wolde in good maner declare his owne good aduyce towarde his prynce and his countrey, eyther to his owne person or suche other of his counsayle, as by them it may be brought vnto him / and nat in vnthrifty company fall to raylyng, or by sclaū derous bylles blowe abrode an euyll noughtie tale, wherof all the towne may talke, & to theyr owne harme diffaine theyr souerayne, whyle hym selfe shall happely nothynge here therof.

But yet are there some that defende suche euyll fassyon of vnreuerent raylynge vppou greate personages, affermynge that it shulde do good that suche hyghe es[…]ates as be farre frō all other fere, may stande yet vnder some drede of diffamacion and sclaunder / that lykewyse as the desyre of honoure, prayse, and glory, prycketh them some tyme forwarde to do good / so may the fere of infamy, dishonour, and disprayse, refrayne and reftrayne them from euyll, and some tyme holsomely brydle and conteyne them within the l[…]mytes and boundes of good and honorable ordre. There nedeth no man to doute, but that as far as suffiseth to that purpose, is prouyded fore well inoughe / thoughe noughty personys be not maynteyned in theyr malycyous raylynge. For who so standeth a lofte vpon an hylle of eminent hyghe estate, can not in no wyse be hydde / but as he seeth all the eyen of his people from the valey lokynge vp vppon hym, so seeth he well that neyther dede nor countenaunce almoste that hym selfe may make, can passe vnperceyued and marked. whyche is inough to make any man regarde hym selfe that any respecte hath toward the prayse and estymacyon of other folke[…] whych respecte who so euer lacketh / no fere of slaundre or drede of dyffamacyon amendeth. which may percase also be lōge spredde farre abrode, ere any man brynge hym worde / whyle many men abhorte to be demaunded by what meane they knowe that there is any suche rumour abrode, and to be asked who tolde them the tale. And some loue to tell theyr mayster no displeasaūt tydynges / but when they here many speke euyll, turne of theyr good myndes euery thynge to the beste, and saye to theyr mayster that all the worlde sayth well.

And fynally yf it fortune hym to here that he be spoken of abrode / some may therby happen rather ware wroth thē care / specyally syth he maye make hym selfe sure, that yf suche raylynge speche be suffred to runne at ryotte, be the gouernour as good as god is hym selfe, yet shal he be sure to be shrewdely spoken of / so redy be lewde persons malycyousely to rayle and ie[…]te vppon theyr rulers. And so for as mych as vppon raylynge and iestynge vppon any maner of estate, there can no good growe, but many tyme rather mych harme: yet it is not onely by the comon lawes of thys realme vppon great payne forbyden, that any man sholde with any slaunderouse raylynge wordes mysse vse hym selfe toward his prynce / but also by the playne statut de scandalis magnatum sore and streyghtly prohybyted, that no man shall slaunderously speke of any noble man in the realme,¹ And myche more is then intollerable to suffer any suche ribauldes to the rebuke of any state, to put forth any raylynge bokes / whyche malyciouse maner is by all other lawes vppon great payne forboden, though the mater touche a ryght mene persone.

And all thys I saye yet / as though I graunted that the pope had made that lawe that Tyndale here sayth he dyd.

But now yf it be false ye Tyndale sayth, & that of trouth the pope made not that lawe, but that the wordes whyche Tyndale reherseth be no law at all, nor spoken nor wryten by any pope, but by some other that was neuer pope / what is Tyndale than, that sayth the pope hath made those wordes for a playne lawe.

Those wordes whiche Tindale sayth are a playne law made by the pope / are in dede incorporate in the boke of the decrees, in the same distinccion and place where Tyndale allegeth them. But than is Tyndale very ignoraunt, yf he know not that though there be in that boke of the decrees many thynges that be lawes, & that were by diuers popes and dyuers synodys and counsayles made for lawes / yet are there in that boke many thynges besyde, that neyther were made by any synode nor by any pope / but wryten by dyuers good holy men. Out of whose holy workes as well as out of synodys and counsayles and popes wrytynge, Gracyane a good vertuouse and well lerned man, compyled and gathered that boke / whych is therfore called the decees of Gracyan, as an other lyke booke is called the decrees of Iuo, whyche out of lyke authoryte cōpyled a lyke worke. Now is euery thynge that is alledged and inserted in the bokes of those decrees, of suche authoryte there, as it is in the place out of whyche Gracian or Iuo gathered it / and not a lawe nor a thynge made by the pope, but yf it were a lawe or made by a pope before, and out of a lawe or out of a popys wrytynge taken in to the decrees.

Now the wordes whyche Tyndale bryngeth forth, and sayth that the pope hath made theym for a lawe, be not the wordes of ony pope / but they be the wordes of the blessed holy martyr saynt Boniface whych brought the fayth in to Almayne, and was for the fayth martyred in Freselande. And so is it playnely specyfyed in the decrees, by those wordes in the rubryce, Exdictis Bonifacit martyris.

But Tyndale to blynde and begyle the readers wyth / wold make mē wene that it were the popys wordes made for a playne lawe. wherin Tyndale playnely sheweth hys playne open falshed, excepte he were so wyse that he hadde went the pope had made it for a law, by cause it begynneth with S[…] papa / lyke hym that bycause he redde in the masse boke, Te igitur clementissime pater, preched vnto the parysshe that Te igitur was saynt Clemens father.

Footnotes

1. Ex[…]di. 22. […] ↩