The.xiii. chapyter

The messenger moueth yt yt wold do well yt prestys shold haue wyuys wherunto ye author maketh answer.

BUt I wold wene it wold amēd myth ꝑte of this mater / yf they myghte haue wyuys of theyre owne Mary q I so sayth luther & Tyndal also / sauyng yt they go sūwhat ferther forth. For Tyndall (whose bookys be nothīg els ī effect but ye worst heresyes pyked out of Luthers workys / & Luthers worst wordꝭ translated by Tyndall / & put forth in Tyndals own name) doth in his frātyke boke of obedyē ce (wherin he rayleth at large agaynst all popes / agaīst all kyngꝭ agaynst all prelatys / all pres[…]ꝭ / all relygyous / all the lawes / all the sayntys / agaynst the sacramētys of Crystꝭ chyrch / al agaīst vertuous workys / agaynst all dyuyne seruyce / and fynally agaynst all thyng in effecte ye good is) in that boke I say Tyndal holdeth ye prestꝭ must haue wy […]ys. And yt he groundeth wysely vpō ye wordys of saynt Poule / where he wryteth to Thimotheus / Oportet episcopum esse irreprehensibilem vnius vxo […]is virū. That a bysshop must be a mā vnreproueable / and ye husbande of one wyfe. And that yt muste be consydered whether he haue well brought vp hys chyldren / and well gouerned hys housholde. By these wordys doth Tyndall after Luther conclude for a playn mater / that prestys must nedys haue wy […]es / and that saynt Poule wold there shold in no wyse be none other prestys but maryed folke. Is yt not now a wō der wyth what spectacles Luther and Tyndall haue spyed thys thynge now in these wordys of saynt Powle. In whyche of so many grete connyng[…] […] thers and holy sayntys as haue often redde / and depely cōsydered those wordys before / there was neuer none that had eyther the wytte or the grace to ꝑceyue that grete specyal cōmaundemēt thys.xv.C. yere / tyll now ye god hathe at last by reuelacyō shewed thys hygh secrete mystery to these.ii. goodly creatures Luther and Tyndall / leste that holy frere shold haue lost his maryage of that holy nonne / and Tyndall some good maryage that I thynke hym towarde. Tyndal nothing answereth in his boke to that poynt / but rōneth and rayleth ouer wythout reson / and sayth that the scrypture ys playne therin for hym. And euer he passeth ouer as thouh he herd it not that al the holy doctours that euer were in Crystꝭ chyrch / sayen that the scrypture whych he alledgeth to be very playn for him / is very playn agaynst hym as it is in dede. For saynt poule in that place / for as mych as yet at that tyme excepte none but yong mē shold haue bē prestꝭ / which he thought not comenly conuenyent / ellys coulde they make no prestys then / but suche as eyther were or had ben maryed / therfore thappostle hauing in the choyse of prestys a specyall respecte to chastyte / and wyllyng to go as […]ere to no wyfe as myght be / dyd ordayne as god had instructed hym / that who so euer shold be admytted to presth[…]d / sholde be the husband of one wyfe. Meanyng suche as then had or byfore had had no mo but one / & that neuer had had twayn. He meaned not as mad Luther & Tyndall wold now make the world so […]d to byleue that a prest must nedys ha[…]e one / nor that he may neuer lac[…]e one / nor yt he may haue one after a nothe[…]/[…]or the onely forbyddyn[…] of twain at onys / but he ment only that non shold be admytted to presthed but onely such a man as neuer had had nor shold haue but onely one. whyche ys the thynge yt euer was & hath bene by those wordys vnderstanden. And not onely where saynt Powle taught / but also thorow crystendome / where the other apostles planted the fayth / hath yt euer ben so obserued. Whych is a playne profe that concernynge the prohybycyon / of eny mo wyuys then one / and the forbydi[…]g of bygamy by ye weddyng of one wyfe after a nother / was the specyall ordynaunce of god / and of saynt Powle. whose epystles wherin he wryteth eny thynge of thys mater / was peraduenture not comen to the handys of other apostles / whan they toke yet the same order by the same spyryte that taught yt hym. For thys is certayn that euer & euery where in crystendom the bygamy of two wyues eche after other / hath ben a let and impedyment agaynst the the takynge of holy orders / and hath of long tyme ben a let / though the […]one wyfe had ben maryed and buryed byfore the mannys baptysme. And nowe these two wyse men agaynst the olde holy fathers and connyng doctours / & agaynst ye cōtynuall custume of Crystꝭ chyrch so many hūdred yeres bygōne / and contynued by the spyryte of god / haue spyed at last ye saynt Powle sayth and meaneth that a preste maye marye […]wyse & haue one wyfe after a nother and that he must so haue. For by Tyndall a prest must euer haue one wyfe at ye lest. And surely yf we leue ye trew vnd[…]standyng of saynt Powlys wordꝭ and byleue Tyndall / that yt ys there ment and comaunded bycause of thys worde […]/that a prest muste haue one / then may Tyndall as for ye place tell vs that a prest ys at lybertye to haue twayne at onys or twentye and he wyll / bycawse saynt Powle saythe no more but that the bysshop muste be the husband of one wyfe. Whych wordys Tyndall maye tell vs be veryfyed / yf he be ye husbād of.x. wyuys. For ye husbād of.x. wyuys were ye husbād of one / as ye father of ten chyldren is ye father of one / yf ye wyuys were as cōpatyble as ye chyldrē be / as it is no dout but Luther and Tyndall wold sone make thē by scrypture / yf theyr owne interpetacyō may be taken for authoryte / agaīst the perceyuing that god hath gyuen to all good crysten people this.xv.C. yere Now as I say vppō Tyndals takyng saīt Poule shold men[…] not that a preste sholde haue b[…]t one wyfe (for yt but is not […] […]aīt Powlꝭ wo[…]dꝭ) but he sholde mene yt a preste muste haue one at the le[…]e / as though saīt Poule had leuer yt ye preste had.xx. sa[…]e for ouercharging. Yet yt semeth that Tyndall so take yt in dede / and that a preste might haue dyuers wyues at onys / specyally for the grete reason that he setteth therto. For where as saynt Poule syth there was at that […]yme lytel choyse to make prestꝭ of but maryed men / wylled therfore that in the choyse of the bysshoppe there shold be consydered howe he had gouerned hys owne howsehold / bycause he that had mystatched his wyfe and hys chyldren / were vnmete for a gret cure / therfore sayth Tyndal that neuer shold ther eny prest be made / but but such as hath a wyfe and chyldren & by the gouernaunce of theym shewed / yt he is mete to bere a rule / as thoughe we neuer saw eny man that neuer had wyfe / gouerne an housholde better th[…] ̄ many that haue had fyue. And yf the hauyng & good rulyng of a wyfe be so specyall a profe of a man mete to be a preste as Tyndall taketh yt / then syth saynt Powle after Tyndals interpretacyon can not appere to forbede the hauyng of dyuers wyues togyder / best were yt after Tyndall specyally to make that man a prest that had many wyues and all at onys / and many chyldren by eche of theym / yf he guyde thē all well. For more profe is it of a wyse gouernoure to rule well fyue wyues / than one / & fourty chyldrē then foure. But now that euery chylde may se the wysdom of Tyndall and hys mayster Luther in the construccyō of holy scrypture / wherof he speketh so myche and vnderstandeth so lytell / I beseche you consyderlyke wordys of saynt Powle in a myche lyke mater. Saynt Powle as he wryteth to Thimotheus that a bysshop must be ye husbād of one wyfe / so wryteth he also to him / yt no wydow shold be specyally chosen and taken in to be foundē of ye goodes of the chyrche that were yonger then.lx. yere / and yt she shold be one that had ben the wyfe of one husbande. Nowe set these two […]e[…]ys togyder of the bysshop and the wydowe / and consyder the wordys of one wyfe in the tone / and one husbād in the tother / yf we shal after Tyndal take the tone wordys for the bysshop / yt saynt Powle shold meane not that he haue or haue had but one wyfe / but yt he must nedys haue one wyfe / than must we lykewyse take the wordꝭ spoken by saynt Powle of the wydowe / as though saynt Powle sholde meane not a wydowe whyche had neuer had mo than one husband / but a wydow yt had had one husband / as though saynt Poule had nothyng fered nor forbode / but lest Timotheus shold take in such a wydow as neuer had no husbande at all. Were not thys wysely construed? Now yf Tyndall wyll agree as he nedys must but yf he be mad / that saynt Powle in gyuyng cōm[…]undemēt that the wydow sholde be suche as had had one husband / ment therby such one as neuer had had mo than one / thē muste he nedys graunt and hys mayster Luther to / that saynt Powle in lykewyse where he sayde that a bysshop must be a good man and ye husband of one wyfe / ment that he must neuer haue nor haue had eny mo than one. And not that he must nedys haue one / or that he must haue one at the leste / and myght haue many mo than one / eyther eche after other or all togyder and he lyst. And in thys mater hathe Tyndall no shyfte[…] For sythe thys worde one in one wyfe and one husbande / was not by saynt[…] Poule set in for nought. It must nedꝭ sygnyfye eyther that there sholde be no mo but one / or that there sholde be one at the lest. Yf he shold mene that a bysshop sholde haue one wyfe at the le[…]te / and that the wydowe sholde h[…]ue had one husbande at the leste / than wolde he rather that they shold haue mo than so fewe / whyche euery man seeth how folysshe that construccyon is. Now yf Tyndall wyll say that by thys worde one / saynt Powle ment there shold be but one wyfe at onys and one husband at onys / thā dyd saynt Powle so speke of the bysshop as though he had sayd / a bysshop must be a good man and haue but one wyfe at onꝭ. In whych wordꝭ Tyndall had loste hys purpose. For so were onely a prohybycyon for eny mo than one / and no cōmaundement but a bare permyssyon for one. And yet were yt lytell to purpose / for in saynt Poulys dayes a lay man had but one wyfe at onys. And the foly of thys construccyon appereth in the wordys spoken of saint Poule in ye choyse of the wydow / wherin Tyndall wolde by thys waye make saynt Poule to say thus. Take & […]hese in but such a wydow as hath had but one husbande at onys / as thoughe the gyse were in his days that wyuys myght haue two husbandys at onys. In fayth quod your frend I thynke saynt Powle ment not so. For thē had wyuys ben in his time lytel better thā grasse wydowes be now. For they be yet as seuerall as a barbours chayre / & neuer take but one at onꝭ. In fayth quod I the foly of suche folke doth wel appere that seke in ye scrypture of god suche newe construccyons agaynst the very sense that god hathe thys.xv.C. yere so taught his hole chyrch / that neuer was there pope so coueytous yet ye durst dyspence in this poynt / seyng the consent of Crystys chyrche so full and hole there in / and the mynde of saynt Poule so clere to suffre onely one wyth vtter exclusyon of eny mo than one / y• who so euer wold constrew hym other wyse / must nedys fall in to suche open folyes as Tyndall & Luther do. And thus ye se how substauncyally Tyndal and hys mayster cōstrue the scrypture / & wyth what authoryte they conferm[…] thys noble new doctryn[…] of theyrs / b[…] whych they wold cōdempne all Crystē dom as brekers of the lawe of god / as lōge as they suffer not any preste take a wyfe / or rather as longe as they suffer hym to be wythout a wyfe. For wyues they must nedys haue by Tyndals tale whyther they wyl or no. By my trouth quod your frende yf Tyndall & Luther haue none other holde thā that place of saīt poule / they be lykely to take a fall. But I thīk they say more thā that. Surely quod I Tyndall hath a nother reason in dede. He sayth that chastyte is an excedīg seledome gyfte / and vnchastyte excedyng perylous for that estate. And theron he concludeth that prestys muste nedes haue wyues. But now what yf a man wolde deny hym though chastyte be a grete gyfte / yt yet yt is a seledome gyft. For though yt be rare and seledome in respecte of ye remanaūte of the people that haue yt not / yet is yt not seledome in dede / for many men haue yt. And Cryst sayth ye al mē take it not / but he sayth not that no man taketh yt / nor that fewe men take yt. And hyghly he cōmēdeth them that for hys sake do take yt. What incōuenyence is yt than to take in to his specyall seruyce men of that sorte that he moste specyally cōmendeth? Or yf we graūted to Tyndal that fewe men can lyue chaste / whych is playne false (for many hath done & doth) but now yf we dyd I saye graūte hym yt thyng / though he myght ꝑaduenture thervpō conclude / yt there shold not be so many prestys made and bounden to chastyte as coulde not lyue chaste / yet coulde he not cōclude as he now cōcludeth / that no preste shold be suffred to lyue chast / but that euery preste muste nedes haue a wyfe. For thys is hys argumēt. Few mē cā lyue chast / ergo euery prest must take a wyfe. Yf we shold impugne the fourm[…] of thys argument / Tyndall wolde rayle and saye we medle wyth sophystrye / and wyse men wolde say we were Idely occupyed to laboure to shew that foly ye so euydently sheweth yt selfe. And therfore we shal lette hi[…] wyse argument alone / syth yt su[…]yseth vs that euery man yt any wytte hath / may well se that vppon hys vnreasonable reason / one of two thyngis must nedes folowe / eyther y• Cryste in commendyng ꝑpetuall chastyte / dyd commende a thyng not cōmēdable / or elles yf euery prest must nedys haue a wyfe / thā were yt not laufull to make a prest of that sorte yt ys of godꝭ owne mouth cōmended. Surely quod your frende me thynke they go ferre therin to say ye prestis must nedꝭ haue wyues. But me thynke that thys they myght well say and I to / that yt is not well done to bynde theym wyth a lawe / that they shall haue none / but yt may be well done to suffer theym haue wyues that wolde as they haue in walys. And I here say that in Allmaygne they fynde grete case therin. For lyke as here the good wyfe kepeth her husbād from her maydys / so there the persons wyfe kepeth her husbād from all the wyuys in the pary[…]he. As for walys quod I ye be wronge enformed / for wyuysha[…]e they not. But trouth yt is ye incōty[…]ēte is there in some place lytell loked vnto / wherof my[…]he harme groweth in ye cuntrye. And as for Allmaygne suche parte therof as that is vsed in / whych is onely where Luthers secte is receyued / who so consyder well what cōmodyte hath cūmen to theym by such vngodly wayes / I thynke shall haue no grete fantysye to folow theym. Well quod he lette Walys and Allmaygne go / yet prestꝭ had wyuys of olde whē they were better thā they be now. And yet haue in grece where they be better than they be here. As for the prestys of gre[…]e I wyll not dysprayse theym quod I / for I knowe theym not. But somewhat was not well there / that god hathe suff[…]ed all that empyre to fall in to hethen mennys handꝭ. And yet be they not there so lose as ye teken theym. For thoughe a wedded mā taken there in to the clergye be not nor can be put frome hys wyfe / but is there suffred to mynyster in the offyce of a preste not wtstandynge hys maryage / yet yf he be vnmaryed at the tyme that he taketh prestehed / be than professeth perpetual contynence / and neuer maryeth after / as I haue lerned by suche as haue comen frome thense. Now where ye speke of olde tyme / surely ye shall vnderstand that there maryed not so many as y[…] wold happely wene. Peraduenture quod he no more there wold now. Some of thē wold haue no wyuys though y• law were set at large. For as a good felow sayd onys to hys frendys ye mer[…]ayled why he maryed not / and thought hym vnnatural yf he cared not for y• cōpany of a woman / he sayd vnto thē yt he had leuer lese a fynger thā lacke a woman. But he had leuer lacke ye hole hand thā haue a wyfe. So yf ye prestys were at lybertye / some of ye worst sort wold yet I wene rather haue womē thā wyuꝭ. But other that wolde be more honeste / wolde I suppose be maryed. And yet wolde some peraduenture lyue in perpetuall contynence as fewe do now. God forbede q I. Well q he they y• wold / were not restrayned. But yf I shall be bold to say what I thyn[…]/it semeth me surely a very hard thīge yt ye chyrche sholde make a lawe to bynde a […] man to chastyte magry hys te[…]he / to whyche god wolde neuer bynd[…] eny man. The chyrche quod I byndeth no mā to chastyte. That is trouth q he except a preste be a man. ye mysse take the mater quod I as I shall shew you after. There wolde quod he many ha[…]mys be auoyded / & myche good wold there grow therof / yf they might haue wyuys that wolde. What good or harme quod I wolde come therof the profe wolde shewe / wherin we myght be the more bolde to trust well / were yt not that we nowe fynde yt naught in Saxony where we newly se yt assayed. And as for that ye spake of olde tyme whan the prestys were better / surely as I wolde yf ye had not stopped me haue sayde ferther byfore. we ꝑceyue well by the wryters of olde tyme / that of those good men very few were maryed. And none in effect after that offyce taken. And many suche as had wyuys byfore / wyllyngly wyth theyre wyuys ass[…]nte forbate the carnall vse of theym. And syth the good or harme growynge of the mater beste apper[…]th by the profe / besyde thexperyence that we haue now in Saxony where thys chaunge ys bygonne wyth an infynyte hepe of heresyes / yt ys ethe to see that the good fathers whyche gaue theyr aduyce to the maky[…]ge of that lawe / wyth the thynge almost receyued in generall custome byfore / and wyth the consente of all crystendome in effecte that ratefyed and receyued yt after / hadde a good ꝓfe therof / and fownde thys the be[…]te waye byfore the lawe made / and there fore I wyll not dyspute wyth you therevppon. But for as myche as ye laye vnreasonablenesse to theyre charge that made yt / bycawse they bynd men as ye […]eken agaynst theyr wyll to chastyte / somewhat were yt th[…]t ye saye / yf the chyrche compelled eny mā to be preste. But now whā […] ry mā […]s at hys lyb[…]te n[…]t to be prest bu[…] at thys plesure / […] can eny […] say that the chyrch layeth a b[…]nde of chastyte in eny mannysn[…] agaynst hys wyll? The chyrch doth in effect […] ferther but prouyd[…]/that where as m[…] ̄ wyll of theyr owne myndys som lyue ch[…]st and som wyll not / the myny[…] of the sacrament shall be taken of th[…]t sorte only / that wyll be conte[…]t to pr[…]fes[…] chastyte. Wherwyth wh[…]so fyndeth fawt / blameth not onely the clergye but also the temp[…]ralyte / whyche be and haue ben all thys whyle […] in the auth[…]ryte of the […] and conser[…]acyon of thys l[…]we. […] of there can no m[…]n bla[…]e the […]syō / but yf he be tyth[…]in that […] y• he thynke that the […] is no more pleas[…]unte to g[…] […] the prestys of the temple for the tym[…] of theyr mynystracyon for[…]re theyr owne h[…]use and the company of theyr wy[…]ys. And therfore they s[…]r[…]d the temple by course / as yt well app[…]reth in the begynnyng of saynt Lu[…]ys gospell. So y• ch[…]styte was thought both to god and man a thynge m[…]e and cō uenyēt for prestys / amon[…] thē whych most magnyfyed carnall generacyon. And th[…]n how myche more specyally now to ye pre[…]ys of Cryst / whych was b[…]the borne of a vyrgyn / and lyued […] dyed[…] […]rgyn hym self / and exhor[…]ed all hys to the same? whose counsayl i[…] th[…]t poynt […]ythe some be content to folow and […] to lyue otherwyse / wh[…]t w[…]y w[…]re I say more metely th[…]n to take in to Crystys tēple to serue about th[…] sacr[…]ent / onely such as be of that s[…]r[…] that ar[…] content and mynded to […] order of the chyrch therin be better thā the contrary / good men and wyse mē bothe had the profe of bothe byfore the lawe made / & yt well allowed thorow crystendom long tyme synnys. Whych ere I wold assent to chaunge / I wold se a better author therof / than such an heretyque as Luther / and Tyndall / & a better sample than the sedycyous and scysmatyque prestys of Saxony. Surely quod he ye haue well declared the chyrch towchyng that law. But what so euer ye cause be / by my trouth nought they be / and as farre worse than we / as they be boundē to be better / and yet be we the worse for theym. There be quod I many ryght good among thē / and ellys were yt wrong[…] wyth vs. And many be there bad also / and some the worse for vs. But whyther parte is the better or the worse / wyll I not dyspute. But thys wyll I say that yt were best that they thought theym selfe the worse / and we our selfe / and euery mā hym selfe […]. I wolde that we were all in […] wyth our own […]tys as my father saythe that we […] wyth our wyuys. For wh[…]n […] folke blame wyuy[…] and say that the[…] be so many of theym shrewes / he sayth that they dy[…]ame thē falsely. For he saythe playnly that there is but one […]ewde wyfe in ye worlde / but he sayth in dede that euery man weneth he hathe ben / and that ye […] is hys owne. So wold I fayne that […]u[…]ry man wolde wene there were […] one man na[…]ght in all ye hole […] and that […] hym selfe. And that he wold thervppō […]o about to […] that one[…] and th[…] wold all […]. […]hych t[…]ng we shold shortly […] yf we wold […] our w[…]le[…]/that I tolde you of / and the […]gge wyth other folkys fawtys cast at our ba[…]ke / and cast the bagge yt bereth our owne fawtys caste yt onys by[…]e vs at our breste. It wolde be a goodly brooche for vs to loke on ou[…]e owne fawtys a nother whyle. And I dare boldely say / bothe they & we shold mych the better amend / yf we were so redy eche to pray for other / as we be redy to seke eche others reproche and rebuke. In fayth quod he I trow that b[…] […]ue and pray god we so may.