The.xxiiii. Chapter. Of paynful death to be suffred in the Turkes persecucion • or the fayth

Vincent. IN good fayth vncle as for the shame, ye shall nede to take no more payn, for I suppose surely that any man that hath reason in his head shall holde hymselfe satisfied with this: but of trueth vncle, all the pinche is in the payn: For as for shame, I perceiue wel now a man maye with wisdom so master it, that it shall no thyng moue hym at all, so farre forth that it is almost in euery countrey become a comen prouerbe, that shame is as it is taken but by god vncle, all the wysdome in thys worlde can neuer […]o master payne but that payne wyll be paynfull spite of all the witte in thys worlde.

Antony. Trouth is it Cosin that no man can with al the reason he hath in suche wyse chaunge the nature of pain, that in the hauing of payn, he fele it not, for but if it […]e felt, it is perdy no payne, and that is the natural cause Cosin, for which a man may haue hys legge striken of by the knee and greue him not, if his head be of but halfe an houre before: But reasō may make a reasonable man (though he would not bee so foolyshe as causeles to fall therin) yet vpon good causes, eyther of gayning some kindes of greate profyt, or auoydyng some kynde of great losse, or eschewing therby the suffring of farre great payn, not to shrynke therfro, and refuse it to his more hurt and harme, but for hys farre greater aduauntage & commoditie content and glad to sustai[…]e it, and this doeth reason alone in many casis where it hath much lesse helpe to take hold of thē it hath in this matter of faith. For wel you wote, to take a sowre and a bitter pocion is great grief and displeasure, and to be launced and to haue […]he flesh cut is no litle payn: now whē such thinges shalbe ministred vnto a childe, or to […]ome childishe man either, they wil by theyr own willes rather let theyr sicknes or their sore growe on to theyr more griefe, til it be come incurable than abyde the payn of the curing in tyme, and that for faynt heart ioyned with lacke of discrecion. But a man that hath more wysdome though he would withoute cause, no more abyde the […]ayne wyllyngly than woulde the other, yet […]ith reason sheweth hym what good he shall haue by the sufferyng and what harme by the refusing, this maketh him wel cōtent, and glad also to take it. Now thē if reasō alone, be sufficient to moue a mā to take pain for the gaining of some worldly rest or pleasure, and for ye auoiding of another pain, thoughe perad[…]enture more, yet i[…]durable but for a short season. Why should not reason grounded vpon the sure foundacion of fayth, and holpen also forward with ayde of Goddes grace (as it is euer ready vndoubtedly whē folke for a good mynde in Gods name cōmen together theron our Sauiour saying himself: Vbi sunt duo vel tres congregati in nomine meo, ibi & ego sum in medio-eorum […] where there are two or three gathered together in my name there am I also euē in ye very middes of them:) why should not thā reasō I say, thus forthered wt faith & grace, be much more able to engendre in vs first such an affeccion, and after by long and depe meditacion thereof, so to cōtinue yt affecciō, yt it shall turne into an habitual fast & depe rooted purpose of paciēt suffering the painful death of thys body here in earth for yt gayning of euerlasting welthy life in heauē, and auoiding of euerlasting painfull death in hell.

Vincent. By my trueth vncle, word[…]s can I none fynde yt should haue any reason with thē (fayth al way presupposed as you protested in the beginning for a groūde) wordes I say can I none find wherwith I might reasonably counterpleade this that you haue said here alreadi. But yet I remēber yt fable ye E[…]ope telleth of a great olde hart that had fled frō a litle bitche whiche had made sute after hym, and chased hym […]o long that she had lost him and as he hoped m[…]re thā half geuē him ouer, by occasiō wherof hauing thā some time to talke & meting wt an other of his felowes, he fel in deliberaciō with him what were best for him to doe, whith[…]r to rūne on stil & fly farther frō her, or turne again & fight wt her: wherunto the other hart aduised him to flye no farther, lest yt bitche might hap to find him agayn at such time as he should wt ye labour of hys farther flying be falen out of breath & therby al out of […]rēgth to, & so shoulde he be killed lying where he coulde not stire him, where as if he would turne and fight, he were in […]o […]erell at al. For the mā with whom she hunteth, is more […]hen a mile behind her, and she is but a litle body scant halfe so m[…]che as thou, and thy hornes may thruste her thorowe before she c[…]n touche thy fleshe, be […]ore then.x[…] tymes her to the length: nowe but by my truth ꝙ the other harte[…] I like your coūsaile wel, & me thinke yt the thing is eu[…]n […]othely suche as you say: but I feare me when I here once that […]rchin bitche barke, I shal […]al to my fe[…]te and forgeat altogether. But yet and you wil goe backe with me, thā me thinke, we shalbe strōg inough against that one bitche, betwene vs both, wher vnto the other hart agreed, & so they both appointed them thereupon. Here it must be knowen of some mā that can skill of hunting, whither that we mistake not […]ure tearmes, for than are we vtterly shamed ye wote well, and I am so conning that I cannot tell whither among them, a bitche be a bitche or no, bat as I remember she is no bitche, but […] brach[…], this is an high pointe in a lowe house: beware of barkyng, for there lacketh an other hun[…]ing terme, at a foxe it is called crying, I wote not what they call it at an hart, but it shal make no matter of a farre. But euē as they were about to buske thē forwarde to it, the bitche had foūd the fote agayn, & on she came yerning towarde ye place, whom as soone as the hartes heard[…] they to goe both twayn a pace: and in good fayth vncle euen so I feare me[…] it woulde fare by my selfe and many other too, which though we thinke it reason that you saye, and in our myndes agree that we should doe as you say, yea & doe paraduenture thinke also that we would in dede doe as you saye: yet as soone as we should once he[…] these hell houndes, these Turkes come yelpyng and bauling vpon vs oure heartes shoulde soone fall as cleane from vs, as those other hartes flye from the houndes.

Antony. Cosin, in those dayes […]hat Esope speaketh of, thoughe those hartes and other brute beastes mo, had (if he saye soth) the power to speake and talke, and in their talking, power to talke reason to: yet to folow reason, and rule themselfe thereby, thereto had they neuer geuē them the power. And in good faith Cosin, as for suche thynges as pertayne toward the conducting of reasonable men to saluaciō, I thinke withoute helpe of grace, mēs reasoning shal doe litle more. But […]han are we sure as I sayed afore, that as for grace, if we desier it, God is at suche reasonyng alwaye present, and very ready to geue it: and but if that men wil afterwarde willingly caste it awaye, he is euer styll as ready to kepe it, & from tyme to tyme glad to encrease it, and therefore byddeth vs oure Lorde by the mouth of the Prophete, that we shoulde not be lyke such brutyshe and vnreasonable beastes, as were those hartes and as are horses and mules. Nolite fieri sicut equus & mulus in quibus non est intellectus. Be not you like an horse & a mule that hath no vnderstanding: and therefore Cosin lette vs neuer dreade, but that if we wil apply our myndes to the gathering of comfort and courage against such persecuciōs and heare reason, and let it sinke into our hearte and cast it not out againe, nor euen there choke it vp and stifle it with pampering in and stuffing vp oure stomakes with a surfite of worldly vanities, god shall so well woorke there with[…] that we shall fynde great strength therein, and not in suche wyse haue all suche shamefull cowardous heartes, as to forsake our Sauioure and thereby lese oure owne saluacion, and runne into eternal fyre for feare of death, ioined therwith, thoughe bitter and sharpe, yet shorte for all that and in a maner a momentary paine.

Vincent. Euery man vncle naturally grudgeth at payne and is very loth to come to it.

Antony. That is very trueth, nor no man biddeth any man to goe runne into it, but that if he be taken, & maye not flee, than we say that reason playnly telleth vs that we shoulde rather suffre and endure the lesse and the shorter here, than in hell the sorer and so farre the lenger to.

Vincent. I heard vncle of late where suche a reason was made as you make me now, which reason semeth vndouted & vneuitable vnto me: yet heard I late as I say a man aunswere it thus: he sayd, that if a man in this persecucion should stand styll in the confession of hys fayth, and therby fal into paynfull tormentory, he might peraduenture hap for the sharpenes and bitternes of the payne to forsake oure Sauioure euen in the middes, and die there with hys sinne, & so be damned for euer, wheras by the forsaking of the faith in the beginning by tyme, and for the tyme, and yet not but in woorde neyther keping it still neuer the lesse in his heart a manne may saue hymselfe from that paynful death, and after aske mercye and haue it, and lyue long, and doe many good dedes and be saued as. S. Peter was.

Anthony. That mannes reason Cosin, is like a three foted stole so tottering on euerye side, that whoso sit thereon, maye soone take a foule fall: for these are the three feete of thys totteryng stole: fantasticall feare, false faith, false flatteryng hope.

First this is a fantastical feare, that the mā conceiue[…]h that it should be perilous to stande in the confession of the fayth at the beginning, leste he mighte afterwarde thorowe the bitternes of payne, fall to th[…] forsaking, and so dye there in the payne, therwith […]ute of hande, and therby be vtterly damned, as though that if a mā by payne were ouercome, and so forsoke his fayth, god could not or would not, as well geue hym grace to repente agayne, and therupon geue him forgeuenes, as him that forsoke his fayth in the beginning, and dy[…] set so litle by hym that he woulde rather forsake hym, thā suffre for his sake, ani maner pain at al, as though the more payne that a man taketh for goddes sake, th[…] worse would god be to him. If this reason were not vnreasonable thā should our Sauiour not haue sai[…] as he dyd. Nolite timere eos qui corpus possunt occidere, & vlterius non habent quod faciunt. Feare not thē yt may kil the bodi & after yt haue nothing yt they can doe farther: for he shoulde by this reason haue sayd, dreade & feare them that maye slaye the body for they maye by the tormente of paineful death (but if thou forsake me be times in the beginning and so saue thy life, and geat of me thy pardon and forgeuenesse after) make thee peraduenture forsake me to late, and so be damned for euer. The secōd foote of this tottering stole[…] is a false faith, for it is but a fayned fayth for a man to saye to god secretely, that he beleueth hym, trusteth him, and loueth him, and thē openly where he shoulde to Gods honour tel the same tale and therby proue that he doth so: there to goddes dishonour as much (as in him is) doth he […]atter gods enemies & doe them pleasure & worldly worship, with the forsaking of gods fayth before ye worlde, and is either faithles in his hert to[…] or els wo[…]teth wel y• he doth God this dispite, euen before his owne face: for (except he lacke faith) he can not but knowe that our Lorde is euery where presente: and while he so shamefullye forsake hym, full angrely looketh on. The third foote of this totteryng stoole, is false flattering hope. For […]i[…]h the thing yt he doeth whē he forsaketh his faith for feare, is by the mouth of god (vpon ye paine of eternall death) forbodden, though ye goodnes of god forgeueth many folke ye faulte, yet to be the boulder in offending for the hope of forgeuing, is a verye false pestilente hope, wherewith a mā flattereth him selfe toward his owne destrucciō. He that in a sodaine brayde for feare, or other affecciō vnaduisedly falleth, & after in labouring to rise againe cōforteth thē self wt hope of gods gracious forgeuenes, walketh in y• ready waie toward his saluaciō. But he that with ye hope of goddes mercy to folowe dothe encourage him selfe to sinne & therewith offendeth god, first I haue no power to shut the hand of god fro geuing out his pardon where he luste, […]or would if I could, but rather helpe to praye therfore. But yet I very sore feare yt such a mā may misse the grace to requier it in suche effectuall wise, as to haue it graunted: nor I can not sodainly nowe remē ber any sample or promise expressed in holy scripture, that the offender in suche a kind shall haue the grace offred in such wise to seke for pardō, that god hath (by his other promises of remission promised to the penitētes, bounde him self to graunt it. But this kinde of presumpcion vnder pretexte of ho[…]e, semeth rather to drawe nere on ye tone […]ide, as dispaire doth on ye tother side, toward ye abhominable sinne of plasphemie against the holy ghost. Against which sinne concernig eyther thimpossibilitie or at the least, greate difficultie of forgeuenes, our Sauiour hath shewed hym selfe in the xii. Chapter of. S. Mathewe, and in ye thyrde of. S. Marke where he saith, that blasphemie against ye holy ghoste, shall neuer be forgeuen, neyther in this worlde nor in the worlde to come. And where the mā that you spake of, toke in his reasō a sample of Sainte Peter: which forsoke our sa[…]iour, and gate forgeuenes after. Let him cōsider againe on ye tother side, yt he forsooke him not vpō the boldenes of any suche sinfull truste, but was ouercome & vanquished vpō, a sodayne feare: & yet by the forsaking, S[…] Peter wanne but litle. For he did but delaye his trouble for a litle while you wote wel. For beside yt, he repented forthwith very sore, yt he so had doone, & wepte therefore by and by ful bitterly. He came forth at the whitsontyde ensewing, and confessed his maister againe, and sone after that he was imprisoned therfore, and not ceasing so, was therupō sore scourged for the confession of his faith, and yet after ye imprisoned againe a freshe, and being frō thēce deliuered, stinted not to preache on stil, vntyll yt after manyfold labours, trauailes and troubles, he was at Roome crucified, and with cruel torment, slayne. And in likewyse I weene I mighte in a maner well warraunt that there shall no man (whych denieth our sauiour once, & after a[…]taineth remission) scape thorow that denying, one penny the better cheape, but that he shal ere he come in heauen, full suerly paye therefore.

☞Vincent. He shal peraduēture worke it out afterward Uncle in the frutefull workes of penaunce, prayer & almose dede doone in true faith, & dewe charite, and attaine in such wise forgeuenes wel inoughe.

Antony. All his forgeuenes goeth Cosin you se wel but by perhappes: but as it maie be perhappes ye, so may it be perhappes naye. And where is he than? & you wote wel yet by no maner hap, he shall neuer hap finally to scape fro death, for feare of which he forsoke his faith.

☞Vincent. No, but he maye dye hys naturall death, and scape that violent death, and than he saueth him selfe from much paine, and so winneth therwith much ease, for euermore a v[…]olent death is painefull.

Anthony. Peraduenture he shal not auoide a violent death therby, for god is without doubt displeased, and can bring him shortly to a death as violent by some other way: howe be it, I see wel that you recken, that whoso dieth a natural death, dieth like a wanton euen al at his case. You make me remēbre a mā yt was once in a galley subtill wyth vs on the sea, which while the sea was sore wrought, & the waues rose very high, & he came neuer on the sea afore, & lay tossed hither and thither[…] y• pore soule groned sore, & for paine he thought he would very faine be dead, & euer he wished woulde god I were on land yt I might die in rest: the waues so troubled him there, wt tossing him vp & doune to & fro, yt he thought y• trouble letted him to dye, because the waues would not let him rest: but if he mighte geatte once to land he though he should thā dye there euē, at his ease.

Vincent. Nay Uncle, this is no doubt but that death is to euery man painefull: but yet is not the naturall death so painefull as the violent.

Anthony. By my trouth Cosin me thinketh yt the death which men cal comonly natural, is a violent dea[…]h to euery mā whom it fetche[…]h hence by force agains[…] hys wil, & that is euery mā which when he dieth, is loth to die, & faine would yet lyue longer if he mighte. Howe be it, howe small the payne is in the naturall deathe Cosin, fayne woulde I wytte who hath tolde you. As farre as I can perceiue, those folk ye cōmonly depart of theyr natural death, haue euer one disease & sicknes or other, whereof if y• paine of ye whole weke or twaine in which they lie pining in thei[…] bedde, were gathered together in so short a time, as a mā hath his paine yt dieth a violēt death: it would I wene make double ye paine yt it is, so yt he y• naturally dieth, ofter suffereth more paine than lesse, though he suffer it in a longer time. And thā would many a mā be more loth to suffer so lōg lingering in paine, thā with a sharper to be soner rid. And yet lieth many a mā moe daies thā one in welnere as great paine cōtinually, as is ye paine that with the violent death riddeth y• mā in lesse thā halfe an howre, except a mā would wene, yt where as ye paine is great, to haue a knife cutte his fleshe in the out side fro the skinne inward, y• paine would be much lesse, if ye knife might on the inside beginne, & cutte fr[…] ye middes outward. Some we heare in theyr death beddes cōplaine yt they thinke they feele sharpe knifes cut a two theyr heart stringes. And some crye out & thinke they feele within the braine panne, theyr head pricked euen ful of pinnes. And they that lye in a pleuresie thinke at euerye time that they coughe, they fele a sharpe sword swappe them to the hearte.