The.xii. chapyter

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ANd we b[…] very sure yt ye thing is good / & our way good th[…]rin / & […]t byleue therin right / not only by resōs & authoryte by which I haue ꝓued it you more thē onys all redy / but also by y• all ye old holy sayntꝭ & doctors of Crystꝭ chirch as saīt Ier[…]/saynt Augustyn / saynt Basyle / saynt Chrisostome / saynt Gregory / wt al such other as playnly we rede in theyr […]/dy[…] as we do therin / & byleued therof as we byleue. And syth we se what they byleued / we nede not to doubt what is be[…] yt we byleue. For yf eny se[…]te byleued […] other / we be sure of […]he […] […]er they / yt so wel bileued & lyued ther wyth / that god hath accepted them for […]yntys / and by myracles openly declar[…]d that theyr fayth and lyuynge lyked hym. […]he[…] […] […]n the tother syde of such as byleued other wyse […]s were these m[…]nyfold sectys of obstynate heretyques / we se not one a saynt am[…]ng them / nor one myracle shewed for thē. I wote ne[…]e quod he wheth[…]r thys reason th[…]t ye make wolde surely satysfy ye tother syde or no. Fo[…] men m[…]y peraduen[…]re answer you that there is m[…]ny a gloryous saynt in heuen of whom we se no myracles in ert[…]/nor happely neuer herde of theyre name. That may well be quod I / & I suppose yt very true. Maye yt not also be quod he that though yt were h[…]rde to thynke / but that of myracles s[…]me amonge so many must nedys be true / […]t syth some also may be fayned / may yt not be that those bē fayned whych dē tolde to […] be done by them whō ye rehersed[…] them I mene that of olde h[…]ue wrytē for yo[…]r parte / I mene, those whome y[…] […]all the olde doctours of the chyrche / and whom the chyrch ta […]th for […]tys. Thys quod I were worse then eny thynge that we spake of yet to fore. The worst was b[…]fore / that we sholde pray to no sayntys. And now ye wolde eyther that we shold hau[…] none / or a[…] the leste that we shold knowe none. Yes quod he ye may ha […]e sayntys and know for sayntys also many one syth thapostles time / thogh those be none whose wrytyng ye wold […]thoryse by theyr sāctyfyeng. Thē […]all you quod I to that poynt agayn / that ye thynke yt may be that ye chyrch may take for sayntys and worshyp as sayntys them that ben none. Surely quod he the pro[…]e that y[…] h[…]ue layde vnto the contrary though yt be somewhat probable / yet semeth me not very stronge nor able & suffycyent to strayne a m[…]n to consent therto. For though ye a[…]y[…]ence of god and hys holy spyryt wyll not s[…]ffer hys hole chyrche to aggre […] to gyder in any dampn[…] ble err[…] yet may he suffer them well to erre in the knolege and worshyp of a saynt[…] a[…]d mystake for a saynt on yt were a dāpned wreche. For therī were no mo[…] daūger to mannys soule / nor no more honour taken frome god / then when the people do worshyp an hoste vnconsecra[…]e / mystakyng yt through ye default of an euyll pr[…]est for the sacred body of our lorde hym self. And this y[…] dowbte not but yt is somtyme done. Forget not now by the way quod I that ye styll agree that god wyll not suffre hys hole chyrche to agr[…]e in eny dampnable erroure and fall in a false faythe. And therwyth remember that though yt were no dampnable erroure to take one for a saynt yt were none / or a bone for a relyque that were none / yet were yt a dāpnable errour to worshyp eny yf we sholde worshyp none at all. And therfore syth the chyrch byleueth that we sholde worshyp them / that kynd of byleue cā be none errour / but must n[…]dys be trew: Nor ye kynde of worshyp can be none ydolatry / but must nedys be good and acc[…]ptable to god. And so our pryncypall mater standyng styll sure & fast / We shall somwhat se forther wherto your wordys wyll way and amount[…]. Y[…] deny[…] not quod I but there be som sayntys & som myracles. No quod he. To what purpose quod I were myracles specyally wrought by god / was yt not […]o the entent to make hys mes[…]ng[…]rs knowē […] […] token that the matter and substaunce of them ys trewe. For els they were as lykely to be spoken of in mo / syth of the false and lyeng sect ys be so many. And thē also myracles beyng trew & beyng done but in one of all those many companyes / eche calling him self ye church / yt ys a good profe that the same one in whych onely they be done / is onely the very tr[…]w churche of Cryste to whych hys holy spyryte & maruelouse m[…]ieste geueth hys specyall assystēce. And surely of all myracles that euer god hathe wrought […]or hys chyrch / I se not in my mynde lyghly a more meruaylous / thē that as many sectys of heretyques as hath sprongē and parted out of Crystꝭ chyrche / and eche of them laboryng to be taken for the very chyrche / yet hath our lorde hetherto neuer suffered neyther the deuyll to do any wonder for theym that myght haue the colour and face of a myracle / nor as false as they be theym selfe / yet hath he not sufferyd thē hetherto not so moch to do as fayn a myracle for theyr parte. Whych is to my mynde not onely grete wonder / but also theyr confessyd falshede consydered / a very clere profe yt they coulde neuer haue ben kept from yt but by the especyall prouydence of god and hys tender cure vppon hys chosen chyrch / whyche yt hath lyked hym hether to / that myracles amonge other thyngys haue ben one good and sure marke betwene hys chyrche and all those erronyous sectys that ben sprongen owte therof / and be not hys chyrch but wold seme to be. For as for Paynyms / turkys and sarasyns / whyche by open professyon a[…]ne of a nother flokke / and bere not the name of Cryste nor looke for hym / he suffereth the deuyl some tyme to delude wt wonders and meruaylys. But ye Iewes that styll gape afte[…] hym / theyr myracles as farre as I cā here be gone / to the entent they maye know yt he hath lefte thē and gyuē thē vp / whych was wont to worke all th[…] se wonders for them. Now as for heretyques whych falsly fayne them self to be hys owne flokke / and presume to […]ere and professe hys name / he kepeth thē from the honoure of eny myracles doynge / to thende th[…]t the lack[…] thereof amonge all theyr settys / and the doyng therof in hys onely chyrch / may be amonge many other thyngys one good marke and sure tokē / where by all the false sectys of theym maye be dyscerned and knowen frome hys very true chyrch / that is to say from ye hole congregacyon of true crysten peple in thys world / whych wythout intermyxtyon of obstynate heresyes / professe ye ryght catholyque fayth. Now is yt not onely true that myracles be wrought onely in the chyrche / & therby do shewe whyche is the very chyrche / but also they do shewe that those holy doctors for whō god hath shewed thē / were good mē and of the right bylyef. For yf yt were as ye wold of late haue had yt seme / that yt myght peraduen[…] be so yt ye holy doctors of our fayth whō we take for sayntys / were in dede no sayntys nor sauyd soules / but happely those were saued soules & sayntꝭ in heuyn though yt were vnknowē here in erthe[…] whyche dyde teche the doctryne here that we now call heresyes / then were yt a wōderous chaung that wher as god amonge the Iewes prouyded yt in euery age there were som god men by theyr good lyuīg & his hygh myracles so notable & wel knowē to ye peple[…] that men had thē alwaye lyke bryght ly[…]ly starres / whose doctryne they might boldely byleue / & whose lyuyng they might surely folow / he wold now in his specyall chyrch of Cryst / not onely do nothyng lyke / but also do clene ye contrary. For yf he shold take ye waye that ye saye / to leue euer synnys thappostles dayes / all the trewe interpretours of hys and theyr holy wrytyng and doctours of the very trew […]aythe lye to the world vnknowē / & thē on ye tother syde set forth wyth myracles or suffer so to be set forth wt meruayles / yt his chirch shold take & accept for saitꝭ such euyl ꝑsons or ypocrytꝭ as cōstrued ye scrypture wronge / & euer synne hys apostles days haue taught fals errors / & led his flock out of ye ryght waye in a dye pathe to hell warde wt wycked heresyes & ydolatrye / then hath not god sent the holy goost / and hym self also taryed styll therin / to teche hys chyrch y• trouth as he said he wold. But he had thē holpē to begyle thē hym self / which wer īpossible for god to do / & more thā blasph[…]my for ony mā to thynke. For thys were not lyke ye sufferaunce of an vnsecrat host / wherof ye put ye sample / wherin the peoples inuyncyble ignoraūce wyth theyr deuout affeccyō may wtout harme to theyr soules be sufferyd in the thynge that seldom happeth and ēdureth for so short a whyle: But yf god wolde leue all good doctours vnknowē / and suffer hys chyrch to be deceyued with myracles and meruaylꝭ done by theym that taught heresyes & setforthe ydolatrye / then sholde hym selfe as I saye not onely suffer hys honour and ryght fayth and relygyon to be perpetually l[…]st / but helpe also hym self to destroy yt. Whych who so could thynke possyble / were worse then Iudas / and more madde then eny man in bedlem. And therfore can yt not in no wyse be / that the chyrch can be deceyued in that they take for sayntys these holy doctours of ye chyrch. Nor they so beyng / can yt in ony wyse be that the doctryne wherin they cōsent and agre can be false or vntrue? Amonge which doctryne syth the thyngys wherof we speke / I mene the prayng to sayntys / the worshyp of ymagys / reuerencynge of relyques / and goyng in pylgrymagys is a parte as by theyr bokys playnly doth appere / we may well and surely cōclude / that none of these thyngys be dampnab[…]e or dyspleasaunt to god / but thyngys hyghly to hys contentacyon and pleasure. And syth we further perceyue that theyr bokys be wryten in dyuers regyons and sondry […] gys / we thereby well perceyue that these thyngys be parcell of the rytes vsagys and byleue of Crystys chyrch / not onely now and of late / but contynually from the begynnyng hetherto. And syth yt is playnly prouyd you that the churche can in no wyse be suffred of god to fall into any dampnable errour therby / yt is yet most surely cōcludyd / that these thyngys be none suche. And consequentely prouyd / that no texte of scrypture semynge to sowne to the contrary / canne be so taken or vnderstanden. Nor that the chyrch cānot in preiudyce of the faythe mysse vnderstand the scrypture. And that the substācyall poyntys of the faythe therefore lernyd of the chyrch / is one of the surest rules that can be founden for the ryghte interpretacyon of holye scrypture. And that no secte of heretyques can bee the church of Cryste / but that once churche ys y• very chyrch. And yt is also clerely proued yt the mater of myracles therin dayly done / is neyther feyned by men nor done by the deuyll / but onely by y• myghty hand of god. And suche obieccyons as ye layde vnto the contrary of eny poynt aforsayde / be as farre as I can se suffycyently answerd / excepte yt ye haue eny forther obieccyon to laye therin. Whyche yf ye haue ye gette no thanke to spare. Wherunto he sayd & sware therwyth that he so fully felte hym self answerd and cōtēted therin / that he thought hym selfe able therwt to content and satysfye eny man / that he shold happen to mete wyth / yt wold holde the contrary. Whervppon for yt day we departed tyl a nother tyme / in whyche we appoynted to pervse the remanaunt of the thyngys that he had in the begyn[…]yng purposed.