The.v. chapyter

ANother sāple of such kynde of answerynge haue I sene made vnto the fyrste chapyter of my thyrde boke of Tyndals cōfutacyō / of whyche answere the bretherne boste greately and say that I am answered euyn to the poynt.

For thys worde was sayd vnto a frend of myne in great boste, by a specyall sure secret brother of thys newe broched brotherhed / wherupon when I had herde it, I longed sore to se that answere. For ī good fayth I had my self thought, that I had so fully answered that chapyter of Tyndalys, whyche is whyther the chyrche were before the worde or the worde before the chyrche / that he sholde neuer wythout hys shame be able to reply whyle he lyued. And therfore lōgyng sore to se how I was answered now therin / I requyred my frend to fynde the meanes yf he myghte, that I myghte se the boke / wenynge that some newe worke of Tindals hadde bene of late come ouer. But afterwarde he brought me word that it was answered not beyond the see, but here wythin the realme / not by any booke specyally made agaynste it, but in a sermon onys or […]wyes openly preched. How be it not of a sodayn brayed, but fore studyed and penned / wherof the boke as a spyryte in close goo[…]h aboute secretely, velut negotium per ambulans in tenebris, amonge thys blessed bretherhed / but I trust to turne it into demonium meridianum, that euery man maye se hym somwhat more playne appere, and shewe hym self in hys owne lykenesse.

Now is it so in dede, that in that chapyter of Tyndals there be certayne lyuys lefte out in myne answere. How be it they were of trouth left out by ouerfyght in the pryntyng whyche maye well appere by thys. For in myne answere I so touche those wordes, that the leuynge out of them maketh myne owne more darke and lesse perceyued. And therfore are they content to fynde […]o fawte at the leuyng out of them, but make as though all were in / & also bycause that myne answere is as they bost by that sermon, so well & substancyally confuted.

But now bycause I wold be lothe to be iudged by the onely bretherne and sisters of the false fraternite / and to the entente they shall all well se that I fere not the iudgement of indyfferent folke, I shall put abrode that all folke may se those wordes of y• solempne sermon, by whyche they boste that myne answere vnto that chapyter of Tyndales chapiter is so goodly confuted.

The very formall wordes lo good reders of that sermō, for as farre as ꝑtayne to this mater, after y• copy that was delyuered me (whyche copy I reserue and kepe for my declaracyō) therin be these wordes that here after folow.

Now yt foloweth in the epystle, Vo[…] […]arie enim genuit nos verbo veritatis.

This text may be expowned after thys maner, He made vs by the […]routh of hys worde / he made vs […] (ye knowe) of nothynge / and he made vs as the chyefe and pryncypall of all his creatures. For he gaue vnto vs wyt and reason, the whyche he gaue vnto no creature […]ynynge in the erth but onely to vs. But to come more nere the mater, we may say that god wyllyngly begate vs by the worde of his trouth / and hath putte vs here in to thys worlde, and here to be as the lord and ruler of al his creatures, the which he made for our comforte and soco[…]re. But yet we may go more nere you, and say how that he hath begoten vs by the worde of hys trouthe. Marke I pray you here, howe that saint Iames sayth that god hath begoten vs thorough his worde of trouth▪ Here yt appere[…]h that we be not trew of […]ure selfe / for we are made trew by god […]orough his word. And where as of our selfe we were no nother but […]yer[…], god of his […] go[…]dnes hath made vs […]y his wor[…]e the chy[…]d[…]en […]f trouth and of […] as bef[…]re we were but […] as worketh none othe[…] thyng […] euen the very dyspleasure of god.

Now god o[…] his mercy[…]ul goodnes by his h[…]ly wor[…]e of trouth hath made vs hys chyl[…]ren / that is to saye the chy[…]dren of his tr[…]uth, euen as yt p[…]eased hym (sayth […]ay[…]te Iames) he hath begoten vs by the word of his trouth. Marke how that he sayth eu[…]n as it pleased him he begate v[…]. If we were begoten and made as yt p[…]eased hym / then was yt not done as yt pleased vs. And agayne and y[…] we were begoten by hym / then could not we gyue hym none occa[…]yon to lo[…]e vs. F[…]r why we cam of hym & not we of vs. […]e[…]e may yo[…] percey[…]e al[…]o, that this texte maketh agaynst theym that wyll saye, the chyrche was before the gospell.

It is playne yn[…]u[…]h that th[…] chyrche […] not before the worde / for saynt Iames sayth that god begate vs thorough th[…] word of his trouth. If we were begotē by the worde, then nedes must the worde […]e be[…]ore we were gote[…] / or elles howe […] we be begoten by the word / and by […] […]rde he sayth we were begoten. If god bega[…]e vs thorow the word / we must nedes graunte that he that begate vs was before that we were begoten / and he that begate vs, begate vs by the worde / then nedes mu[…]e the worde be before that we were begoten. Nowe then yf this worde were before we were begoten / howe can we say that the chyrche was before thys worde.

If we meane by the chyrch, the chyrch of […]yme & stone, then yt is playne ynough that the word was before any such chyrch was made. For we fynde that yt was many a daye a[…]ter man was made, or eue[…] there were any suche chyrches made. If ye meane by the chyrche, the vnyuersall chyrche of god, the whych is the congregacyon of all chrysten peple. If you mean this chyrche, and saye howe this chyrche was before the worde: then saint Iames maketh you an answere to that, sayenge how that by the worde this chyrche was begoten. Then nedes mus[…]e we graunte that the worde of god was before any chyrche was.

ye but some wyll not be content wyth this answere, but they wyll saye that the chyrche was before that this worde was wryten of any man, and yt was admytted and alowed by the chyrch, and so was the chyrche before his word[…]. ye but yet I wyll say to you agayne, how that this word was writen before the chyrch was / […]e and yt was not wryten by men, but yt was wryten by god our sauyour afore the begynnynge of the worlde / as wytnesse saynt Poule, where he sayth to the Hebrewes, D[…]bo leges meas &c. I wyl gene my laws […]ayth god into theyr hertes, & in theyr myndes shall I wryte yt. Beholde how god gaue yt them at the begynnyng in theyr hertes, and wryt yt in theyr myndes, and they exercyses his lawe wryten in theyr he[…]tes in de[…]e and […] effecte.

Thus may ye […]e that at the begynnynge god wrote his lawes in theyr hertes, and therfore mu[…]e we nedes graunte that the w[…]rde of god was taught to them longe or euer the congregacy[…]n taught yt. For you se that by the word we were begote / therfore the worde must nedes be before we were begoten / or elles how coulde the worde begete vs.

Some peraduenture wyll say, that the chyrche was before this worde was wryten in bokes of paper and pa[…]chement and suche other thynges, and that the chyrch dyd admit them to be rede of them, which they thought necessary to loke on theym. They wyll saye that the chyrche was before this was done. ye but what thyng is this to the purpose, or what shall we nede to stand arguynge of this mater.

It is playne ynough to all men that hath eyes to se & […]ares to heare, how the word of god was before any chyr[…]h was, & how the word of god was writen afore yt was wryten in any bokes or tabuls / and therfore what shall we nede to dyspute thys mater. But good lorde, yf yt had not ben wryten by the euāgelyfies in those days, how shold we do in these dayes, the whiche brynge forth the scrypture for theym in dede / and yet they wyll bere theym in hand that yt is no scrypture, and yf yt had not ben wryten in bokes then. Not wythstandyng ye may perceyue how the word was or euer the chyrche was, & the worde begate vs and not we the worde / and also yt was wryten or euer the chyrche alowed yt to be wryten.

Now good readers, to the entent ye maye the better perceyue for what purpose the bretherhed bosteth these wordes, ye shall vnderstande that where as Luther fyrste and Tyndale after hym, tell vs for a fundacyon of all theyre abomynable heresyes, that there is nothynge that ought to be taken for a sure and vndowted trouth of the chrysten bylyefe, but yf it maye be proued by playne and euydent scrypture: the kynges hyghnes in his most famouse boke of assercyon of the sacramentes, layed agaynste Luther / & I out o[…] the same boke of my sayd souerayne lord▪ toke and layed agaynste Tyndale and all such, that the word of god is parte wryten in the scrypture, and part vnwryten that appereth not proued therein / as for ensample y• perpetuall virgynyte of our lady & other dyuerse poyntes whych were onely taught by Cryste to his apostles and by them fo[…]th to the chyrche / and so by tradycyon of the chyrche bysyde the scrypture and wythout wrytynge, taught and delyuered vnto chrysten peple from age to age / and so the faythe and bylyefe of those thynges kep[…] and contynued fro thapo[…]les dayes vnto our owne tyme. And that yf the chyrche were nothynge boun[…]en to byleue, but onely the thynges playnly wryten in scrypture / than had all folke b[…]fo[…] Moyses dayes bene lefte at lyberty[…] to leue all goddes wordes vnbyleued. And than had Crystes chyrch in the begynnyng ben at libertye to leue a great parte of Crystes own wordes vnbyleued. For the chyrche was gathered and the faythe byleued, before any parte of the newe testamēt was put in wrytynge. And whyche wrytyng was or is the trew scrypture, neyther Luther nor Tindale knoweth but by the credence that they gyue to the chyrche.

And therfore syth the word of god is as stronge vnwryten as wryten, and whyche is hys worde wryten Tyndale can not tell but by the chyrch, whyche hath by the assystence of the spyryte of god therin y• gyfte of dyscrecy on to knowe it / and syth that that gyfte is gyuē (as saynt Austayn sayth and […]uther hym selfe confesseth) to thys comon knowen catholyke chyrch: why shold not Luther and Tyndale as well byleue the chyrch, in that it telleth theym, thys thynge dyd Cryste and hys apostles saye, as they muste byleue the chyrche (or ellys byleue nothynge) in that it telleth them thys thynge dyd Crystes euā gelystes and apostles wryte.

Now good readers, Tyndale seyng how sore thys reason of the kynges hyghnes doth towch and […]urne vp the very fundacyō & great parte of hys heresyes: he doth ī his boke agaynste me, of whyche booke he maketh the tytle, whych is the chyrch and whether it may erre or not, putte thys chapy[…]er, Whether the chyrch were before the gospell, or the gospell before the chyrche. whyche chapyter to thende ye the more clerely perceyue the mater, I shall reherse you hole / & after that some parte of myne answere therto. And thā yf ye rede agayn the wor […]es of thys sermon y• I haue here inserted byfore / euery chylde almoste shall be well able to iudge, whyther thys preacher haue in hys sermon auoyded well myne answer[…] or no. These are Tyndals wo[…]des.

[…]ther d[…]ute there is, whether the chyrch or […] be before the gospe[…]l or the gospell before the chyrche. Whyche que[…]yon is as harde to solue, as whether the father be elder then the sonne, or the sonne elder then his father. For the hole scryptu[…]e and all beleuynge he[…]tes tes[…]yfye▪ that we are begoten thorowe the worde. […]herfore yf the worde begette the congregacyon, & he y• begetteth is before hym that is begoten / then is the gospe[…] be[…]ore the chyrche. Paule also Romano.ix. sayth, Howe shall they call on whom they byleue not? And how shall they byleue wythout a preacher?

That is, Chryste must fyrst be preached […] men can byleue in hym. And then yt foloweth, that the worde of the preacher must be before the sayth of the byleuer.

And therfore in as myche as the worde is before the fayth, and fayth maketh the congregacyon / therfore is the worde or gospell before the congregacyon.

And agayne, as the ayre is darke of yt selfe, & receyueth all her lyght of the […]o[…] euen so are all mēs hertes of thē self darke wyth lyes and receyue all theyr trenth of goddes word, in that they cōsent therto.

And moreouer as the darke ayre gyueth the sonne no lyght / but contrarye wyse the lyght of the sonne in respecte of the ayre is of it self, and lyghteneth the ayre, and purgeth yt from darkenesse: euen so the lyeng herte of man can geue the word of god no tre[…]th / but cōtrary wise y• treuth of goddes word is of her selfe and lyghtneth the hertes of the byleuers, and maketh them trew / and clenseth them from lyes / as thou redest Ioh[…].xv. ye be clene by reason of the worde. Whyche is to be vnderstande, in that the worde hadde pu[…] ged theyr hertes from lyes, from false opinyons and from thynkynge euyll good, and ther[…]ore from consentynge to synne. And Iohn.xvi[…]. Sanctyfy them o […]ather […]horow thy treuthe. And thy worde y[…] […]euth. And thus thou seeft that goddes trouth dependeth not of man. It is not trew because man so sayth or admytteth yt for trew. But man is trew bycause he beleueth yt, te[…]fyeth, & g[…]ueth wytnesse in his herte that yt is trew. And Chryste also sayth hym selfe Ioh[…].v. I rec[…]yue no witnesse of man. For yf the multytude of mannys wytnesse myght make ought trew, then were the doctryne of Mahemete trewer then Chrystes.

Lo good reders, here haue ye herde Tyndals chapyter / the mater wherof y• bretherne boste that the wordes of that sermon do so well and substā cyally mayntayne, agaynste mine answere made vnto this chapyter.

But nowe to thentent ye may your self iudge, whyther y• sermon may bere out theyr […]oste or not / I shall reherse you some parte of myne answere. Lo thus begynneth myne answere vnto Tindals chapyter.

Lo he that redeth thy[…] and hereth not thansw[…]r[…] / except hym self be well typed in the mater / may wene that Tyndale in these wordes had quit hym selfe syke a man / & borne me ouer quyte / he solueth the obieccyon so playnely / & playeth therwyth so pleasauntly. But now when ye sha[…] vnderstād that neuer man wa[…] so madde to make thys obieccyon to Tyndale but hym selfe / then shall ye laugh[…] to se that […]e wreste[…]eth all alone and gyueth hym selfe a fall / and in his mery solucyon mocketh also no mā but hym self.

I sayed in my dyasoge that the chyrch was before the gospell was writen / and that the fayth was taughte, and men were baptysed, & masses sayd & the other sacramentes my nystred amonge cristē people before any parte of the newe testament was putte in wrytyng / and that thys was done by the worde of god vnwryten. And I sayd also there / & yet saye here agayne / that the ryghte fayth whyche Adam had and suche as in the same fayth succeded hym long ere wrytyng began, was taught by the word of god vnwrytē / and so went from mā to man fro the father to the sonne by mouth. And I sayd that thys word of god vnwryten / is of as greate authoryte as is the worde of god wryten.

I shewed also that the chirch of Cryste hath ben / is / & eu[…]r shall be / taughte & instructed by god and hys holy spyryte with his holy word of eyther hynde / that is to wytte bothe wyth hys worde wryten and hys worde vnwryten / & that they whyche wyll not byleue goddes worde but yf he putte it in wrytynge / be as playne infydeles as they that wyll not byleue it wrytē / syth goddes worde taketh hys authoryte of god that speketh it / & not of man that wryteth it.

And th[…]re is lyke suerty and lyke certayne knowledge of the worde of god vnwryten as there is of the word of god writen / syth ye know neyther the tone nor the tother to be the worde of god, but by the tradycyon of the chyrche.

whyche chyrche as all crysten m[…]n byleue / & the scrypture shew[…]th / and saynt Austayne declar[…]th / and Luther hym selfe confesseth / & the deuyll hym selfe sayth not naye / the ble[…]sed spyryte of god hath inwardly ta[…]ght / tea[…]heth / and […]uer shall teache / to knowe / iudge and dyscerne the worde of god from the word of man and shall kepe the chyrch frō errour / ledynge it into euery trouth / as Crys[…]e sayth hym selfe in the.xvi. chapyt[…]r of saynt Iohans gospell. which he dyd not yf he suffered the chyrche to b[…] dampnably deceyued in takynge the worde of man for the worde of god / wherby it sholde in stede of seruyce to be done to god / fall in vnfaythfulnesse / and wyth idolatry do seruyce to the deuyll.

And therfore I shewed in my sayed dyaloge / and yet the kynges hyghnes myche more playnely shewed in hys most erudyte famouse booke agaynst Luther out of whych I toke it: that the worde of god vnwryten is of as greate authoryte / as certayn / and as sure / as ys hys worde wrytē in the scryp[…]ure. which poynt is so faste and sure pytched vpon the rocke[…] our sauyour Cryst hym selfe that neyther Luther, Tindale, nor […]uskyn, nor all the hell houndes that the deuyll hath in his kenell / neuer hytherto could nor whyle god lyueth in heu[…]n & the deuyll lyeth in hell neuer hereafter shall (barke they / baw[…]e they neuer so fast) be able to wreste it out.

And that they be all as I tell you so feble in this poynt wherupō theffect of all theyr hole heresyes hangeth (for but yf they veynquyshe this one poynt / all theyr heresyes fully be burned vp and fall as flatte to asshen as it were allmoyse all obstynate heretykes dyd) ye maye se a clere proue by these wordes of Tyndale / whych he hath set so gloriously forth in the fore fronte of hys batayle / as thoughe they were able to wynne the hole felde. For where as I sayed that the gospell and the worde of god vnwrytten was before the chyrch / & by it was the chirch begon gathered and toughte / and that the chyrche was byfore that the gospell that now is wryten w[…] wryten / that is to wy[…]e byfore any parte of the gospell was wryten / for as for all the hole gospell that is to wyt all the wordes of god that he wolde haue knowen byleued and kepte / was yet neuer wryten: thys beynge the thyng that I sayd Tyndale w[…]th all the helpe he hath had of all the heretykes in A[…]mayne thys two or thre yere to gyther is yet in suche d[…]spa[…]re to be able to matche therewyth, that he ys wyth shame inough fayne to forgette that I sayd the chyrche was before the gospell wryten. whyche thynge hym selfe can not denye, & is fayne to frame the doute and make the obieccyon / as thoughe I had sayd that the chyrche had ben before the gospel and the word of god vnwriten / wherof hym selfe knoweth well that I sayd clene the cōtrary And therfore good reders hauynge thys thynge in your remembraunce: take nowe the […]ayne to rede Tyndal[…] wordes agayne and ye shall haue a pleasure to se how fondely […]e […] afore you. For now hys crafte open[…]d and decla […]ed vnto you[…] ye shall per […]ue that he playeth nothing […]ene but fa[…]eth […] that conuayeth hys galles so craftely that al the table spy […]th them.

Lo good readers, here haue I nowe rehersed you but a pyece of myne answere vnto that chapyter of Tyndale / & yet by this one pyece alone may ye clerely perceyue, that all those wordes of that sermon go so farre wyde fro the […]oynt, that they not onely do nothynge helpe Tyndale (for all the labour that they take aboute yt) but also the preacher of them taketh a fowler faller than Tyndale / in that the preacher stumbleth at the same stocke, and falleth into the same puddell that Tyndale dyd, and that after that he was warned by myne answere made to Tindale afore.

For this here ye se, that this preacher in the fyrst part of his wordes, toucheth not the mater / but lytle and lytle he descēdeth therto by the expownynge of these wordes of saynt Iames, voluntarie enim ge […]uit nos verbo ver[…]atis / that ys in englyshe, He hath wyllyngly begoten vs by the worde of trewth.

[…]ow be yt the peacher englysheth it thus, […] whyche wordes after that he hath expowned after dyuerse maners, he cometh at laste to that exposycyon, by whych he expowneth those wordes in this wyse, that god hath wyllyngly by his worde made vs the […] of […]rewth and of […]. And after a thynge or two noted & marked therin, whyche I shall happely make you to marke well & s[…] somwhat more therin hereafter, then the preacher sheweth you there / he cometh to y• poynt wyth whych we be now in hand and therin thus he begynneth. […].

But now do you good readers clerely perceyue and se, that this precher sayth wrōg. For while they against whom he preacheth, that is to wytte, they that say the chyrche was byfore y• gospel writē, do both m[…]ane and playnely, wryte that the chyrche was not by […] […] that the he […] wolde make men […], that goddes word were of none authorite nor worthy to be byleued, but yf yt were wryten in the bokes: nowe I […] that syth ye knowe good […]aders, that they agaynste whom this preacher thus precheth, do meane, and say, and wryte, as ye nowe se they do / ye cā not but clerely perceyue and se, that this precher doth in this poynte but laboure to blynde his audience, & meteth nothynge wyth the mater▪

For now this thyng hadde in mynde and cōsydered / all his reason after, whych he taketh oute of Tyndales chapyter, wa[…]eth euyn dede for colde.

For what he[…]e or what one sparke of life after this thyng consydered, haue all his wordes y• folow, wherin he sayth.

It is playne ynough that the chyrche was not before the worde / for faynt Iames sayth that god begate vs thorough the word of his trouth. If we were begotē by the worde, then nedes must the worde be before we were goten / or elles howe […] we be begoten by the word / and by the worde he sayth we were begoten. If god be ga[…]e vs thorow the word / we mu[…]t nedes graunte that he that begate vs was before that we were begoten / and he that begate vs▪ begate vs by the worde / then nedes muste the worde be before that we we[…] […]. Nowe then yf this worde were bef[…]e we were begoten / howe can we say that the chyrche was before thys worde.

If we meane by the chyrch, the chyrch of […]yme & stone▪ then yt is playne ynough that the word […] before any such chyrch was made. For we fynde that yt was many a daye after man was made, or euer there were any suche chyrches made. If ye meane by the chyrche, the vnyuersall chyrche of god, the whych is the congregacyon of all chrysten peple. If you mean this chyrche, and saye howe this chyrche was before the worde: then […]aint Iames maketh you an answere to that, say[…]nge how that by the worde this chyrche was begoten. Then nedes muste we graunte that the worde of god w[…]s before any chyrche was.

Al this chyldesh reason ye wote well, whyche Tyndale hath begoten hym, and whyche he bryngeth out of Tyndales chapyter, and fathereth yt vppon saynt Iames, be yt neuer so quicke ī another mater, is yet in this as touchyng them agaynst whome he preacheth yt, clene quayled in the trauayle, and vtterly borne dede / whyle they agaynste whome he preacheth, saye not precysely that the chyrch was before the gospell, nor byfore goddes worde, but onely saye that the chyrche was byfore the gospell and goddes word was put in wrytynge.

And that his reason is dede, as I say yt is / hym selfe that preached yt perceyueth / and therfore he goth farther and draweth nerer to the mater, and sayth.

ye but some wyll not be content wyth this answere, but they wyll saye that the chyrche was before that this worde was wryten of any man, and yt was admytred and alowed by the chyrch, and so was the chyrche before his worde, ye but yet I wyll say to you agayne, how that this word was writen before the chyrch was / y[…] and yt wa[…] not wryten by men, but yt was wryten by god our sauyour afore the begynnynge of the worlde / a[…] wytnesse saynt Pon[…]e▪ where he sayth to the Hebrewes, Dabo leges mea[…] &c. I wyl geu[…] my law[…] sayth god into theyr hertes, & in theyr mynde[…] […]all I wryte yt. Behold[…] how god gaue yt them at the begynnyng in theyr herte[…], and wryt yt in theyr myndes, and they exercyses his lawe wryten in theyr hertes in dede and in effecte.

Thus may ye se that at the begynnyng[…] god wrote his lawes in theyr hertes, and therfore m[…]ste we nedes graunte that the worde of god was taught to them longe or euer the congregacyon taught yt. For you se that by the word we were begotē / therfore the worde must nedes be before we were begoten / or elles how coulde the worde beget[…] v[…].

By these wordes good readers ye se, that hym selfe perceyueth that all his other wordes were not wurth a ryshe, bycause they came not nere y• purpose, nor any thyng towcheth them agaynst whom he precheth them. And therfore seynge that Tyndale is by myne answere therin proued a fole / he goth as ye se ferther than Tindale went. But ther in the nerer he cometh to the poynte, the more he proueth hym selfe to go the ferther frō reasō. For what reasō hath he y• in arguyng agaynst other, sayth but the same y• they say?

Now all that euer he sayth in these wordes, saye we against whom he precheth thē.

And we not onely saye the thynges that he sayth nowe, that is to wytte that goddys worde was ere euer it was wryten, and that it was wryten in hartes ere euer it was wryten in bokes / but these be also the thynges that we specially lay agaynst him, whose sayd chapyter thys preacher wolde wyth these wordes defende. For syth the gospell o[…] Cryste and the wordes of god that are now wrytē in bokes, were all wryten in hartes byfore they were wryten in bokes, and yet were at that time of the same strength and authoryte that they be now / we saye to Luther and Tyndale & all such oher heretikes, that they say false in that they preche & teche, that mē are boūdē to byleue nothyng but if it be wrytē in bokes / syth god is at his liberty to geue his word in to hys chyrch euen yet at thys daye, by hys owne mouthe, thorow thinspyracyon of hys holy spyryte sent therunto, & by hym selfe abydynge euer therin / & at y• prechyng of the chyrch, wryte it ī y• hertes of y• herers, as well & as surely as euer he gaue hys word to his chyrche by hys apostles, and wrote it in the peoples hartes at theyr prechynge, at suche tyme as it was yet vnwryten in any of thapostles bokes.

And ouer this, we tell them that the same chyrch, by onely which chyrch they now know whyche bookes be those tha[…] haue the word of god in them that the apostles and euange tystes haue wryten / the same chyrche I say doth tell them, that the wordes of god which god wyll haue vs byleue, be not all wryten in those bokes but some parte styll remayne onely writen in hartes, as before the bookes wryten they dyd all to gyther. And we tell them that Tyndale muste as well byleue the chyrche in tellynge hym whyche be those wordes of god y• yet remayne vnwryten, as he doth & must byleue it in tellyng hym whyche be those bokes, in whyche the wordes of god are wrytē.

And therfore good reders what thynges in thys worlde coulde thys precher haue deuysed worse to brynge forth agaynst me for Tyndals defence, than those wyth whych as ye se Tyndale is most cle […]ely confounded.

But nowe shall ye se, that this precher perceyueth it wel inough hym selfe. And therfore after that he hathe sette forth Tyndals reason, & dyssymuled myne answere that I haue made to it / and so before hys audyence wrestled a whyle in the darke, where for lacke of syghte of the mater they myghte se how he fell: he waxed yet halfe wery therof at last, and somwhat ashamed to, leste he were peraduenture spyed / & fayne wolde he therfore haue shakē of the mater, & rydde him self out honestly / and therfore in conclusyon he cometh downe to thys.

Some peraduenture wyll say, that the chyrche was before this worde was wryten in bokes of paper and parchement and suche other thynges, and that the chyrch dyd admit them to be rede of them, which they thought necessary to loke on theym. They wyll saye that the chyrche wa[…] before this was done▪ ye but what thyng […] this to the purpose, or what shall we nede […]o stand arguynge of this mater.

It is playne ynough to all men that hath eyes to se & eares to heare, how the word of god was before any chyrch was, & how the word of god was writen afore yt was wryten in any bokes or tabuls / and therfore what shall we nede to dyspute thys mater. But good forde, yf yt had not ben wryten by the euāgelysles in those days, how shold we do in these dayes, the whiche brynge forth the scrypture for theym in dede / and yet they wyll bere theym in hand that yt is no scrypture, and yf yt had not ben wryten in bokes then. Not wyth standyng ye may perceyue how the word was or euer the chyrche was, & the worde begate vs and not we the worde / and also yt was wryten or euer the chyrche alowed yt to be wryten.

Here haue ye sene good readers after longe wrestelynge wyth me, what shyft this precher maketh to shake y• mater of. For seynge that he can in no wyse defende Tyndalys reason, he wold at laste fayne shake of the questyon. And in dede the questyō as Tyndale frameth it of hys own fasshyō for hys owne aduauntage, is very fryuolouse and folysshe. And therfore thys preacher goth (as I say) somwhat ferther and cometh nerer to the poynt, in whyche the mater of the questyon lyeth. But than bycause he can not defende Tyndale and auoyde myne answere, after y• tyme dreuyn forth in forneshynge of Tyndals reason / whan he cometh to the poynte he leueth myne answere vntouched, & wolde shake of y• questiō for nought

But that thyng now good readers wyll not well be for hym. For the necessyte of this questyō you se now your self. For syth Luther, and Tyndale, and other suche heretykes, do teache that no worde of god is now to be byleued, nor to be taken for goddes worde by the teachyng of the catholyke chyrche, but yf it be wrytē in scripture: they droue vs of necessyte to tell theym agayne, that the chyrche was before the scrypture, & before that any of goddes wordes were wryten therin / and that all hys wordes that he wyll haue byleued, were neuer writen / and that he is not so tong tayed, but that he is at lybertye to speke yet mo wordes whan he wyl, and may bynde vs as well to byleue them, as euer he bounde vs to byleue any worde that euer he spake before be it vnwryten or wryten. And that in all such thinges Luther & Tyndale both, and frere Barns to, & all the heretykes of them, muste (as I sayd) of reason byleue the chyrch as well whan it telleth theym, these thynges Cryste hath by hys owne spyryte or by the mouth of hys apostles taught vs, as whan it telleth them these thinges hath Crist by the penne of hys apostles wryten vs. Now is thys knot so sure, that it can neuer be losed, but yf these heretykes or thys precher for them, can by playne scrypture proue vs y• god hath caused al such thinges to be wryten in scrypture all redy / and ouer that made a promyse, eyther that he wyl neuer speke any suche worde more, or that yf he do, he wyll at the leste wyse take no dyspleasure wyth vs, though we tell hym playnely that syth it is not in scrypture all redy, he shall wryte it in yf he wyll, or els wyll we not byleue hym.