The.ix. chapyter

NOw come I to theym that say I hādle Tyndale and Fryth and Barons vngoodly and wyth vncomely wordes, callynge them by the name of heretykes and folys / and so vse them in wordes▪ as though the men had neyther wytte nor lernynge / where as it can not be denyed (they say) but y• they be suche as euery man knoweth well haue both.

As for wytte and lernyng I no where saye that any of them haue none / nor I meane no ferther but for the maters of theyr heresyes. And in the treatynge of those / they she[…] so lytle wy[…] or lernyng eyther that the more they haue, the mo[…] appereth the feblenesse of theyr pa[…]e and the falshed of theyr heresies, yf they haue any great wytte or any great lernyng in dede, and than for all that, in the defendynge of those maters with such folish handelynge so shamefully cō founde them selfe.

How be it of very trouth, god vppon such folke as hauynge wyt and lernynge fall wylfully from fayth to false heresye, sheweth hys wrath & indygnaciō with a more vengeaunce in some parte, than (as some doctours saye) he doth vppon the deuyll hym selfe.

For (as dyuerse doctours holde opinyon) the fendes be fallē from grace, and therfore haue lost theyr glory / yet god hath suffered theym to kepe theyr gyftes of nature styl, as wy[…]te, bewty, strength, agylyte, and such other lyke.

And father Alphonse the Spaynish frere told me, that the deuyls be no suche deformed euyll fauoured creaturs as men imagyne theym / but they be in mynde proude, enuyouse, & cruell. And he bode me that yf I wolde se a very ryghte image of a tende / I sholde no more but euyn loke vppon a very fayre woman that hath a very shrewed fell cursed mynde. And whan I shewed hym that I neuer saw none such, nor wist not where I myghte any such fynde / he sayd he coulde fynde foure or fyue / but I canne not by leue hym. Nor veryly no more can I byleue that the fendes be lyke fayre shrewd women yf there were any such. Nor as the world is, it were not good that yonge men sholde wene so. For they be so full of corage, that were the fendes neuer so cursed, yf they thought them lyke fayre women, they wold neuer fere to aduenture vpon them onys. Nor to saye the treuth no more can I byleue neyther, that the dāpned spyrytes haue all theyr naturall gyftes as whole and as perfayte as they had byfore theyr fall.

But surely yf they haue / thā (as I sayed before) god hath on Tindale, Barns, & Fryth, & those other heretykes, more shewed hys vengeaunce in some parte, then he dyd vpon the de[…]yll. For in good fayth god hath as it semeth fro these folke taken awaye the be[…]te parte of theyr wyttes.

For lyke wyse as they that wolde haue byelded vppe the toure of Babylō for them self agaynste god, hadde suche a stoppe throwen vppon them, that sodaynely none vnderstode what another sayed / surely so god vppon these heretykes of our tyme that go besyly aboute to hepe vp to the skye theyr foull fylthy dunghyll of all olde and newe false […] […] stynckyng heresies, gathered vp togyther agaynst the trew catholyke fayth of Cryst, that hym selfe hath euer hytherto taught hys trewe catholyke chyrch: god I say, which whā the apostles wente aboute to preche the trewe fayth, se[…]te downe hys owne holy spyryt of vnyte, concorde, and treuth vnto them, wyth the gyfte of speche and vnderstandynge, so that they vnderstode euery man & euery man vnderstode them / hath rered vp and sent amonge these heretykes the spyryte of errour and lyenge, of dyscorde and of dyuysyon, the dampned deuyll of hell, whyche so entangleth theyre tunges and so dystempereth theyr▪ braynes, that they neyther vnderstande well one of them another, nor any of thē well hym selfe.

And this that I here saye, who so lyst to rede my bokes, shall fynde yt so trewe and so playnely proued in many places, that he shall well se & say that this is the thyng whych in my wrytynge greueth this blessed bretherhed a litle more then the length.

And therefore where they fynde the […]aute that I handle these folke so foule / how could I other do? For whyle I I declare and shewe theyre wrytyng to be suche (as I nedes muste, or leue the moste necessary poyntes of all the mater vntouehed) yt were very hard for me to handle yt in suche wyse, as when I playnly proue them abominable he re[…]ykes and agaynst god and his sacramentes and sayntes very blasphemouse folis, they sholde wene that I speke thē fayre.

But then they saye that the pacyfyer whyche wryteth of the deuysyon bytwene the spyrytualty the temporalty, calleth no man by no suche names / but speke he neuer so euyll of any, he can yet vse his wordes in fayre maner, and speke to eche man gentylly.

I can not say nay but y• is very trouth. How be yt euery man hath not lyke wytte nor lyke inuencyon in wrytynge. For he fyndeth many proper wayes of vtterynge euyll mater in good wordes, whyche I neuer thought vppon, but am a simple playn body mych lyke the Macedonyes, for whome Plutarche wryteth y• kynge Philyppe theyr mayster made a reasonable excuse.

For whē they were in y• warre some of theyr enmyes fled fro theyre owne kynge and came in to kynge Philyppes seruyce agaynste theyr owne coū trey. wyth whome when the Macedonyes fell some tyme at wordes, as it oftē happeth among souldyours / the Macedonyes in spyght wold call them traytours. wheruppon they complayned to kynge Philyppe, and made the mater […]ore and greuouse / that where as they had not onely left theyr owne natyue countrey, but dyd also fyghte agaynst yt and helpe to destroy yt, for the loue & seruyce that they bare towarde hym / hys owne people letted not in angre and in despyghte to call them false traytours. wheruppon kynge Phylyp answered them. Good felowes I pray you be not angry wyth my peple, but haue pacyence. I am sory that theyre maner ys no better. But I wysse ye know them well ynough / theyr nature is so playne, and theyr vtteraūce so rude, that they can not call an horse but an horse they. And in good fayth, lyke those good folke am I. For though Tyndale and Fryth in theyr wrytynge, call me a po[…]te / yt is but of theyr owne courtesye, vndeserued on my parte. For I can neyther so myche poetry nor so myche rethoryque neyther, as to fynde good names for […]uyll thynges / but euyn as the Macedonyes could not call a tray[…]our but a traytoure, so can I not cal a fole but a fole, nor an heretyque but an heretyque.

Some of y• bretherne sayd, that I sholde at the lest wyse call frere Ba[…]ns by the name of doctour, bycause he was authorysed and made a doctour of dyuynyte by the vnyuersyte. But one answered for me to y•, & sayd that name was geuē, to serue for y• tyme in which he was mete to tech / and not nowe when he is not mete to teache, but is by the chyrche for false teachyng for boden to teache. But then vnto that one of them answered agayne and asked, why shold I then call hym frere styll▪ whyle he is nowe no lenger a frere no more then a doctour.

But vnto this I coulde betwene theym tell some reason of dyfference. How be yt ra […]her then to make this boke ouer longe, by holdyng a probleme vppon euery tryfle / I shalbe content like as in stede of doctour men call hym heretyke, so in stede of frere to call hym the tother name that euery man calleth all those that be runne out of relygyō. […]o there haue I fallen on a fayre fygure vnware, that ys I trowe called periphrasys, to voyde the fowle name of apostata.

But nowe these good bretherne that fynde the faute wyth me, that I speke no fayrer vnto these holy prophetes of theyrs / be so egall and indyfferent, that in theym they fynde no faute at all for theyr abominable raylyng agaynst so many other honest honorable good and vertuouse folke, nor for condēpnynge for damned heretyques the whole catholyque chyrch of all crysten people except heretykes, both spyrytuall and temporall, seculare and relygyouse to.

But then y• good brethern excuse them and say, that they wryte agaynst none but onely theym that are noughte, and write but against theyr v[…]ces.

But this wyl euyll defend them, when Barons wryteth against y• whole clergy, & Tindale saith expressely y• of them all there is neuer one good.

And also they wryte not so mych agaynst pompe & pryde and glotony, as agaynst watchynge and prayeng, fastyng and wylfull pouerty / and all these thynges in good religyouse people the heretyques abhorre, and call yt but ypocrysye.

Then rayle they not so sore in wordes agaynste the lay[…] people / but as fayre as they flater theym to make theym enmyes to the clergy, yet they damne them all to the deuyll, both them selues and theyr fathers, & theyr graundfathers, and theyr graūd fathers great graundfathers to. For they say that thys.viii. hundred yere all the corps of crystendome hath ben led oute of the ryght waye fro god, and haue lyued al in idolatry, and dyed in seruyce of y• deuyll / because they haue done honour to Cristes crosse, and prayed […]to sayntes, and reuerenced theyr relyques, and honored theyr ymages, and ben baptysed in latyne, and taken matrymony for a sacrament, and vsed confessyon, and done penaūce for synnys, and prayed for all crysten soules, and ben aneyled in theyr deth bedde, & haue taken theyre housell after the ryte and vsage of the chyrche, and haue set more by y• masse then they sholde do, and byleued that it was a sacryfyce, an hoste, and an oblacyon, & that yt sholde do theym good, and haue byleued that there was neither brede nor wyne in the blessed sacrament of the aulter, but in stede of brede and wyne y• very bodye and blood of Cryste. All these thynges say Tyndale and Barns both be very false […]ylyefe and gret damnable synne in y• doyng / and so dampne they to the deuyll the whole catholyq[…]e chyrche bothe temporall and spyritual & (excepte heretikes) leue not one man for goddes parte this.viii. hundred yere paste by theyr owne lymytacy on / and of trouth yf theyr fals heresyes were trew, not in the tother.vii. hundred byfore y• neyther.

Now whan that agaynste all the whole catholyke chyrche, bothe that now is, & that euer before hath ben from the apostles dayes hytherto, both temporall and spyrytuall, ley men and relygyouse, and agaynst all that good is, sayntes, ceremonyes, seruyce of god, the very sacramentes & all, and most agaynst the best that is to wytte the precyouse body and bloud of our sauyour hym selfe in the holy sacrament of the aulter, these blasphemouse heretykes in theyr vngracyouse bokes so vilanously ieste and rayle: were not a mā wene you very farre ouersene and wurthy to be compted vncourtayse, that wolde in wrytynge agaynste theyr heresyes, presume wythout great reuerēce to reherse theyr wurshypfull namys.

If any of theym vse theyr wordes at theyr pleasure, as euyll and as vyllanouse as they ly[…]te agaynste my selfe / I am content to forbere any requy[…]ynge therof, and geue them no wors wordes agayn then yf they speke me fayre / nor […]nge them selfe toward all other folke as they do, fairer wordes wyl I not geue theym then yf they spake me […]owle. For all shall be one to me, or rather the wurse the better. For the pleasaunt oyle of heretykes caste vpon myne hede, canne do my mynde no pleasure / but contrary wyse the wurse y• suche folke wryte of me, for hatered y• they bere to the catholyke chyrche and fayth / y• greater pleasure (as for myne owne parte) they do me. But surely theyr raylyng agaynst all other, I purpose not to bere so pacyentely, as to forbere to lette theym here some parte of lyke language as they speke. How be it vtterly to matche them therin, I neyther cā though I wold, nor wyll neyther though I coulde / but am content (as I nedes muste) to geue theym therin the maystry, wherin to matche theym were more rebuke then honestye.

Now yf they excuse them selfe, and say they speke euyll but of euyll thynges (for so call they good wurkes of penaunce, and so call they the ceremonies and sacramentes of Crystes chyrch) I answere them playnely that they lye / wherin euery trewe chrysten man wyll testyfye that I say treuth / for those thynges be good and holy whyche they rebuke and call nought. And I saye ferther also, that by y• excuse of theyrs, they make myne excuse to, in the thynge wherwyth they be wurst content / that is to witte, where […] sumewhat sharpely rebuke wedding of frerys & nonnys / whyche thynge is as all the worlde woteth, bestely and abomynable in dede.

And also yf they wyll excuse them selfe, and saye that as […]owchynge men, they rayle agaynste none but suche as be […]ewde and nought: to this I answere fy[…]ste that in thys thyng they lye. For they rayle agaynste all. And some they call noughte by name, whose specyall goodnes shall haue reco[…]de and wytnesse of all good folke that know them. Secundly I say ferther▪ that by thys excuse of theyrs / they must nedes excuse me to, whā I rebuke them selfe. For they be wel[…] and openly knowen & cōuycted for heretykes, whiche is ye wore well the wo[…]st […]ryme that can be / & that for […]eretykes of suche a maner sorte, as is the wurste kynde of that cryme that euer came out of chrystendome.

How be it I am yet contēt for all thys, to fall at some reasonable composycyō with them. Let vs take thys waye bytwene vs from hense forth yf they lyst. Lyke as I do not allow but abhorre incontynence in sacred professed persons y• haue vowed chastyte / so let them confesse that them selfe abhorre also the bestely bycherly mariages of mōkes freres and nonnes, and of all suche as haue vnto god promysed & vowed the contrary. And than syth all our mater is onely of the fayth / let them forbere in stede of reasonyng to fall to raylynge vppon other mennys lyuynge. For therby fleynge fro the mater of fayth / they furnysshe oute theyr processe w[…]th lyenge, wh[…]le the fawtes of some, they lewdely laye to all.

If they wyll not (whyche were the beste) reuoke theyre false heresyes / nor wyll not (whyche were the next) be heretykes alone them selfe, and holde theyr tunges & be styll, but wyll nedes be babelynge and corrupte whom they can: lette them yet at the lest wyse be reasonable heretykes and honeste, and wryte reason & leue raylynge / and than lette the bretherne fynde the fawte wyth me, yf I vse theym not after that in wordes, as fayre and as mylde as the mater maye suffre and bere.

But thys waye wyll they neuer take I wene. For t[…]an they se well that theyr dysc[…] ples wyll neuer haue half the luste to loke vpō they: bokes wherin they shold than fynde but a poore feste and an euyll dressed d[…]er. For in theyre onely raylynge standeth all theyr reuell, wyth onely rayl[…]nge is all theyr roste me[…]e bas[…]ed, and all ther pot seaso […]ed, and all theyr pye me[…]e sp[…]ed, & all theyr maūche[…]es, […] all […]heyr wafers, and all […] ypocrace made.