The.xiiii. chapyter

HIs.xiiii chapyter begynneth in the xiii. lefe. In the begynnyng therof he laboreth to proue that he dyd not (as I in myne apologye, saye that he dyd) go about in his boke of diuysyon, to make men wene that the spyrytual iudgꝭ in this realme handeled men for heresye so cruelly, that all the worlde had cause to wonder and grudge therat / which thynge that I shold so say, this good man myche meruayleth at.

For I sayed no more (sayth he) But that it were pitie it sholde be so, and that it sholde be trewe that is reported, that there sholde be such a desyre in spyrytuall men to haue men […]biure, or to haue men haue extreme punyshement for heresye / as it is sayde[…] that there is.

Rede good reders the.xlv. chapyter of myne apologye begynnyng fo. 243[…] and than shall you fynde this answere of his a very bare naked thing This mā answereth here as though he trusted that all the worlde were woodcokkys saue hym self / and that hys fayre fygure of some saye, were so wylyly founde, that men had not the wytte to se therby what his booke meneth, & what wurke it goth about. But this I dowte not, but that yf eyther hym self or such another man, wolde deuise me suche another boke, eyther agaynste the nobylyte of the realme, or agaynste the iudges of the same, or agaynste the hygh court of perleament it self, which were soone done yf a man in lyke wyse lyste to slaunder & to bylye them / nor it could not I wote wel what so euer he sayd therin, be lyghty wurse or more false thanne that booke of hys dyuysyon, concernynge the poynt that we speke of, that is to wyt thys false slaunder of the spyrytuall iudges in mysse handelynge men for heresye, as it hath ofter than ones before the lordes of the kynges most honorable coūsayle vpon lyke false bylles and cōplayntes of partyculare persons by good examynacion ben proued / and than if he that wolde make I say of the nobylyte, the iudges, or the perleamēt, suche another boke wolde brynge in all his false talys agaynst them vnder the selfe same fayre fygure of some say, and many say, & they saye / and than say that hym selfe wold say no piece therof, but onely that it were pytie that it sholde be trewe, that it were so as many folke reportei is so, and than preche and pray god send them the grace that they do not so: I dare be bolde to saye that there is no wyse man, but he wolde bothe soone se and saye, that the man wyth suche false lesynges went about to dyffame and slaunder them, and make the people wene that it were so.

Than after this thynge so fetely skused: he declareth hys wordes agayne, whyche he spake in his dyuysyon of spekynge heresyes of lyghtnesse, or of a passyon. And bycause I answered hym in myne apolygye, yt yf such thynges shold be excused by lyghtnesse & by passyons, than myght there passe by myche lewdenesse and myche myschyef to / the begynnynge wherof groweth of lewd lyghtnesse & of euyll passyons: herin he sheweth that there is dyfference in dedys, and yt some be more & some be lesse. And bycause I did put for samples, manslaughter and aduowter, whiche he thought was to high to be lykened to spekyng & talkyng heresye: he bryngeth it somwhat agayne to bace, and putteth other sāples of one spekyng an angry worde, & yet wolde not kyll one / & one yt hath a passion of aduowtry, & yet doth not the dede / & sayth yt his treatise ment not obstinate dedely passyons, but passyons of ignor[…]unce & of frayltie, & done for lacke or good aduisement.

As for his passyon of ignoraunce, he may put vp agayne. For what so euer he say, he shall not fynde I dare warraunt hym whyle he lyueth, but that the thynges that heretykes are punyshed for, be such thynges as be well & openly knowen for heresyes, & to haue ben before condempned for heresyes by the comen knowen doctryne of the whole catholyke chyrch.

Now as touchynge hys passyons for frayeltye & for lacke of good aduisement: doth there no man kyll a nother euyn sodaynly vppon a passyon of angre, for lacke of good aduisemēt? doth neuer none vnthryftes vppon a passyon of lechery, sodaynly fall together in aduowtry for lacke of good aduisement?

Ye wyll this man saye, but these fo[…]ke do ye dede. That is very trouth in dede. But yet they do the dede, but of a passyon of frayltye, for lacke of good aduisement. In yt aduou[…]ry, the malyce is the lacke of goodnesse in ye wyl to ye kepyng of goddꝭ cōmaūdementes And yet euyn in those passyons to, though the ferther dede be not done, no man neyther kylled nor stryken, nor none aduowtry done in dede, though the lawes of the worlde for lacke of power to loke into y• […]arte, can not punyshe the bare entent of suche thynges: yet our sauyour saith hym selfe very sore wordes therin, and sayth that hym selfe taketh theyr wylles for theyr dedys.

But now in heresye the wordes be the worke. For not onely the spekyng, but also the defendyng therof, is in wordes to.

But a man sayth he, maye speke heresye of lyghtnesse, & of a passyō of frayltye, & yet not entend[…] to fall fro the fayth. So may a man speke very lewde and rygh[…]e traytorouse wordes by hys prynce to, of a passyon and of a frayltye, without an inward entent and purpose to procure his destruccyon. But than wyll this man peraduenture say, that than be suche wordes yet no treason, without some maner of ouert & open actuall dede therwith. Whyther they be treason or not, yet in any englysshe boke that I wold put in prente, I wolde as thus aduised, aduise euery man for fere of treason, beware of all suche lewd language / and not vnder colour to teche the iudgys theyr part, go tell the people without necessyte, yt though they talke traytorouse wordes, yet it ys no treason, as this good man in hys booke of diuysyon telleth them, that to talke heresyes is none heresye

Nowe as I sayed before, concernynge heresye whyche is the treason to god, the outwarde acte therof by whyche men muste iudge whyther the manne fall fro the fayth or not, standeth in the wordes. And therfore both wysedome and reason wyll, that folke well be ware vpon the parell of heresye, that they forbere all talkyng of heresye, as maye declare theyr mynde that they byleue suche heresye.

That I wyl well agre wyl this good man say. But than I wolde they sholde be ware, by meane of charytable warnynge geuen to theyr persons. I wolde veryly wene, yt in a matter so heyghnouse and of suche weyght, wherof so mych harme may growe by the sufferaunce, the spyrytuall lawe that geueth hym leue to abiure at the fyrste, and in so great a cryme saueth ones his lyfe, geueth hym a warnynge as charytable and as larg, as in a cryme so perylous reson cā wel bere. And yt shold we soon fele, yf we wolde geue the lyke ly bertye for ones warnynge, to euery lesse cryme than that / & shal shortly fele it in heresyes, if besydes tha[…] we geue theym lesse fere and more lybertye in bolde talkynge and teachynge without other parel than warnynge.

For as for the order of warnynge that this man here prouydeth, in this xiiii. chapyter of his newe boke, takynge a coloure and a pretexte of the gospell of Chryste, that speketh of an order of monycyons, requyrynge a tracte of tyme, before any open denuncyacyon: I wyl not mych stycke vpon. For I purpose not to make a longe processe vpppon euery founde pyece of his dyuyses, wherin thye good man is content to lese tyme and spyl paper. But I wyl say this and say trouth, that thordinaryes, of this order that he speketh, do vse in dede as myche as may wel be borne, and sometyme I fere me more to.

For thys muste thys good man vnd[…]rstande, that thys good softe slowe sober order, that he descrybeth here, may not all, & alway, be kept, neyther in heresye nor treason, nor some other great crymes neyther, wythoute great hurte and damage to the comen weale, and vtter losse and destruccyon of many a good symple soule, that sholde by thys order alwaye kepte, paryshe in the meane whyle.

Nor our sauyour ment not in hys wordes, that if I wyst one that were walkynge aboute myschyefe, that wolde go geue such drynke about as shold poysen them that dronke therof, that thanne I sholde vse all that tracte of time, rather then cause hym be taken vp by tyme at the fyrst sope that I se him geue any man to syppe vpon. Nor that tract is not therfore to be vsed wyth them, that speke and boldely talke heresyes about, & therby do plainly teche them, though they byd not ye herers lerne them. For (as saynte Poule speketh of suche heresyes) euyl cōmunicacion corrupteth good maners. […] […] whyche wordes though the greke poete Menāder ment by the communycacyō of other fleshely lewdnesse: yet the blessed apostle vsed them and applyed theym specially, to the lewd communycacyon of heresyes, whych wyth suche bolde noughty talkynge crepeth forth and corrupted (as saint Poule also sayth) lyke a corrupt canker. And therfore as I saye, suche a lōg sober tracte before theyr callyng by the ordynarye course of ye law, as not alwaye to be vsed of necessyte wyth euery suche maner man, and let theym poysen other good symple soules in the meane season, whyche they may do percase with suche communycacyon, though they neyther mynded in theyr owne harte, to make any other men heretykes, nor to be he retyques theym selfe.

And yet wolde there besyde this, some suche as well wyste theyr myscheuouse dealyng to be suche, and so wel able to be playnly proued, as the ordinarye coulde not without goddes dyspleasure let theym after passe vnpunyshed / wolde at the fyrste worde spoken by the ordynarye to hym at large, flyt oute of that place / and as I haue in myne Apologye sayd, and as we se yt often proued, go kepe lyke scoles in a nother.

But yet because I haue herd say euen whyle I was wrytynge thys, that the myld sober order whych this good man hath here in this chapyter dyuysed, is very wel lyked, and hath bene wel praysed wyth some suche folke as my self haue had some cōmunycacyon with ere this: I wyl therfore not hyde yt nor kepe yt awaye from you, but geue you good reders here euen his owne wordes, fo. 45. he sayth.

And nowe wyll I saye a lytle farther in this mater / concernynge suche wordes, that ys to say, that yf any man now in thys daungerous tyme, whyle this dyuysyon contynueth, wyll shew vnto the ordynary that he herde any speke wordes, that as he thought s[…]ode not wyth the catholyque faythe / and the ordynarye mysse lyketh the wordes also: I wolde than thynke / that yf he vppon whome the informacyon is made, be suche a man / that he that complayneth of hym may conueniently speke to hym wythout daunger / that than the ordynarye shal aduyse hym to kepe the mater secrete, yf yt be yet secrete / and not openly knowen: and that he shall than charytable aske of hym / what he ment by these worde[…]. And than when the questyon is asked hym, yf he make so reasonable an answere / that yt soundeth […]o no heresye / than is the mater answered. And yf he auowe the wordes / and yet they be in dede agaynst the catholyque fayth: than yt semeth good / that he that accused hym, folowe the gospell / and take wytnesse wyth hym / and efte charytably gyue hym monycyon therof. And yf he wyll yet stande styll opynatynely in his opynyon / and not accept the good monycyon of the other: than I thynke it good that he agayne informe the ordynarye therof / and than yt semeth to be conuenyent that the ordynarye sende for hym / not as for a man yet notoryousely knowen or detected for an heretyque / but to knowe farther, whether yt be trew as the other hath reported or not: and yf he fynde yt trewe by suffycyent profe / or by hys owne confessyon and he wyll not be reformed, than yt semeth couenyent / that he vppon the wytnes of the other / be p[…]nyshed as he hath des[…]ued. And yf he wyll be by the ordynary secretely reformed: then yt semeth good, yt he depart without any o[…]n penaunce: but what were conuenient to be ther b[…]ne in that mater, I wyll cōmytte yt to other.

Consyder now good readers the cōmodile of this order. You se that he speketh of one that speketh such wordes, as to the herers seme heresye. For both he so taketh them that informeth thordinary of them, and so doth thordynarye to. Nowe may you perceyue by the progresse of his deuyce, that though there were mo thān one that herd hym, or mo than twayne, or tenne eyther: yet wold he not that the ordinary shold send for him / but fyrst assay by some such as herd him, what he wyll saye there to when he ys asked the questyon what thynge hym selfe m[…] ̄t therby. And then if he haue the wyt to say yt he ment in his wordꝭ but suche a thynge as that meanynge soundeth to none heresies (which wit heretykes ynough haue) than ys all the mater answered. For thā ye wote wel a wyly heretyque by this wyse order, may be bolde with gloses redy proued, so saye what he wyll and where he wyll. For the ordynarye maye not sende for hym to laye those […]eretycal wordes to his charge, and to consyder vpon the cyrcumstaunce of his dealynge in suche talkynge, peraduenture in diuerse places vsed whether he ment as hym selfe declareth yt, or ment to teache the thynge that he spake, and to hepe his declaracyō in store for a scuse. This fyrst poynte alone of thys good mannys order yf yt were surely obserued, were ynough to fyl an whole towne shortely ful of heresyes.

Than goth he farther to a second poynte, that yf he that spake heresyes, wyl when he is asked the questyon auowe theym: yet shal not he that herd hym resorte vnto thordynarye but go fetche wytnesses fyrste, before whome yf the felow be so folysh to confesse them, and so frantike as to auow them, than this good mā geueth theym leue to go tell thordynarye the tale and accuse hym. But nowe yf he haue the wytte byfore the wytnesses to lye and saye that he neuer sayd theym, or to saye that he wil saye so no more: then is all the mate[…] yet saufe ynough agayne / it shall neuer nede that euer the ordynary here any more worde of hym / but let hym go forthe and vse that fashyon styll, in as many companyes as he cometh. For that ye wote wel can do no hurt. But and yf euery man to whome he speketh heresye secretly, and secretely wolde make mo heretyques, shold secretely enforme the ordynarye / & that he sholde vpon.xx. suche secrete informacyons, afterwarde call hym forthe openly, and after vppon theyre open deposycyons, openly make hym abiure, and beare a fagot or accurse hym for hys obstynacye / and after an whole yeres sufferaūce fynally for his immedicable malyce, as a desperate wreche delyuere hym to the seculare handes, where a fagotte sholde beare hym: thys were a cruell delynge of the ordynarye, and a mysse handelynge of a good honest man for heresye.

And yet goeth he farther a lytle, that though he holde yt and auow his heresyes afore the witnesses: thordynarye sholde not yet for all that procede agaynst hym openly, but speke with hym secretely. And though he auow theym before hym selfe to: yet sholde he not by thys good mannys aduyse, procede agaynste[…] hym by ordynarye meanes openly, but let hym departe wythoute open penaunce, yf the felowe be so wyse as at laste (rather than he wolde come therto) saye that he wyl amēde and wyll say such thynges no more.

But than after al this, what were conuenyent to be farther done he wil he sayth […]emyt vnto other men. And so were yt myche nede in dede. How be yt yf this order that he deuyse[…]h here, were wel obserued for so farre forthe as he goeth: I wene all the worlde coulde not well deuyse farther, suffycyentely to reforme and remedy the myschyefe that hys charytable deuyse wolde do.

How be it the beste is therin, that he deuyseth not this order for a thing to stande for euer / but for this tyme now he saith which is he sayth a daungerouse tyme, whyle thys dyuyuysyon contynueth.

But nowe so is yt good readers that whether this tyme be so daungerouse as he speketh of or no, or whether there be in this tyme suche dyuysyon as he maketh or no: sure it is I saye, that euyn in this same tyme heresyes begyn to growe a great deale faster than they haue bene wont in some other tymes past / and therfore is this tyme so mych the worse to vse […]uch order in, thā were a nother time, wherin there were many fewer.

For yf this pacyfyer wyl nowe be so peasyble, as to deuise such an order y• al myscheuous factyous folke shold be suffered in peace: he shall wyth his peasyble order (yf yt were obserued) brynge the worlde in that case, that good peasyble folke that fayne wold lyue in peace, shold not for such inquiete and vnrestful wreches without some rufle lyue in peace longe.

Were it not a wise order wene you if he wold in like wise deuyse for theuys the same softe charytable fashyon that he deuiseth here for heretikis? that is to wyt that men shold to hym that had stolen an horse, or robbed an house, go geue hym a monicyon fyrst and then yf he saye that he dyd yt not or that he wolde do so no more, take all the mater for saufe / and than say that he wolde not haue that order all waye kepte, but onely in suche dayngerouse tymes as many folke wolde fall to thefte. For than were yt good to spare theim and speke them fayre, and suffer theym tyll they wolde waxe fewer of them selfe / and than after that, vse agaynste theym the lawis & the old order again. Wold not thys wyse waye trowe you do well in thefte? For sothe yt were awaye as farre vnwyse & as farre agaynst reason in heresy, as eyther in theft or murder or any other maner cryme.

And surely me semeth y• where he calleth this a dayngerouse tyme: he vseth a very daungerous worde / and to fere the ordynaryes wyth all, wolde make the worlde wene, that heretyques were here so many and so stronge, that thordynaryes myght not nowe do theyre dutyes in subduynge heresyes, wythoute great daungeour. Wherin there is as great daungeour yet, and shall I dout not in the kynges graces days that now is, and longe mote be, as there ys in the parynge of an apple. Howe be yt I wyl not denye hym thys inded, but that yf suche daungerouse wordes of his dyuysyon, may make thordynaryes aferd of theyre owne shawdow a whyle: yt may grow to some daunger at the laste.

But than goeth […]e farther with a nother remedye, that I truste in god shall neuer nede. For I truste in god there neuer shall in thys realme, any suche great personage fall into heresye, as thordynarye dare not procede accordynge to the law agaynste hym. Howe be yt in case yt shold happen[…] than this good man prouideth for the remedy (to say the trouth) very wel, that is to wyt that thordynary sholde haue recourse vnto the kynge, that his hyghnes vppon petycyon made vnto hym, and informacyon geuyn hym, maye (as no doute were there but he wolde) wyth his royall assystence, prouyde a meane suffycyent, yt the course of the lawe myght ꝓcede.

This is wel deuised. And here in he plaieth the good kow, & geueth v[…] a good galon of mylke. But thā shal you se howe he playeth the shrewde know agayne, and turneth ouer the payle euyn by and by wyth his hele. For vppon this good deuise, he forth with addeth this shrewd sayēg to yt.

But as longe as there is an opynyon amonge the peple / that the ordinaryes & theyr offycers wil geue lytght credence vppon informacyons made to theym of heresye / and that they wyll noyse theym that be complayned on a[…] heretyques / before dew examynacyon in that behalfe; so long wyll the peple grudge and peraduēture the kynge not geue hys assystence so redyly to haue them attached as he wolde do, yf he herde that the ordynaryes noysed no man to be an heretyque wythout dew examynacyon, as is before rehersed.

If this good man had as myche wyt as I se wel he lacketh: I wold wax euyll content with hym, that he shold ones conceyue any such opynyon of the kinges graciouse hyghnes, as that his grace wold any thynge be the more remysse to geue royall assystence vnto thordinaries, about ye attachīg of such as are suspect of heresy, as longe as hys grace herde that thordynaryes noysed that any man were an heretyque wythoute suche dewe examynacyon as this man afore rehersed. For the kynges hygh prudence very wel perceiueth, that if he sholde forbere tyl that tyme that he sholde here no suche thynge sayde by theym: yt were almoste as myche to say, as he shold geue no asystence agaynste heretykes, tyl al heretykes were gone. For neuer shall there lacke suche a false sedycyouse fame agaynste the ordynaryes, as longe as there are heretyques here & there to sowe it, and suche sedycyouse bokes of dyuysyon, with such vntrew Some sayes to blowe yt farther abrode.

The vntrouth of such false fame, hath ben before the kinges honorable counsayle of late well and playnely proued all redy, vppon sondry suche false complayntes by the kinges gracyouse commaundement examyned. And all be it that this is a thynge notoriousely knowen, and that I haue also my selfe in myne apologye spoken thereof, and that synnys that boke gone abrode, it hath ben in lyke wyse before the lordes well & playnely proued in mo maters a fresshe / and all be it that this water wessheth awaye all his mater: yet goeth euer this water ouer this goosys backe / & for any thynge that any man can do, no man can make it synke vnto the skynne that she maye ones fele it / but euer she shaketh such playne proues of with her fethers of Some say and they say the contrary. Is not this a prety proper way? And therfore thus you se good reders, that this mānes deuicys in his order to be taken with suche as speke heresyes, be very vicyouse and haue they neuer so fayre a fleryng at the fyrste face: yet whā they be cōsydered well, they be founden farre worse thā nought. And yet was I not mynded as you maye se, to haue examyned them so farre, sauynge that euyn whyle I was in writynge of this chapyter, and about to leue of: worde was brought me that thys deuyce of his order for heresye, was with some folke whom my self haue knowen, so specyally well commended. But yet wyll thys man say, & in effecte so he dothe, mayster More wyll not say for all thys that euery thynge that a man speketh whiche yf he obstynately wolde holde he w[…]re an heretyke, is inough to iudge euery such man an heretyke, as doth in any maner speke it.

I wyll not at thys tyme varye with this good man for that, nor dyspute with hym vppon the trouth of ye tale, there be so many maner waies of spekynge. For a man maye speke therof in dysprayse therof. But this wyll I saye to hym. That tale and such other lyke, were they neuer so trewe, were yet as me semeth mych better out of his englysshe prented booke than in it.

For yf he thynke it necessary to wryte it, bycause of any folke whom he thynketh necessary to lerne it: eyther he meneth that they nede it, whiche are the spyrytuall iudges, or els the comen people. Now as for the iudges, veryly I haue knowen and do knowe many of them, & yet knewe I neuer none so symple of wyt, nor so farre vnlerned, but for any wyt or lernyng that I perceyue in this man, the wurste of theym wyste a greate dele better what perteyned vn to theyr parte and theyr dutye in suche poyntes as these are, than doth thys good man here.

Than yf he saye he putteth it in, bycause that though they knowe it they mysse vse it, and do the contrary and so do therby misse handle the kynges people, and put theym to cruell punyshement vniustely: than I aske hym how he proueth that lye to be trew? Therto ye wote well he wyll brynge forth for the playne profe of his playn trouth in the mater his old thre wurshypfull wytnesses whiche stand yet all vnsworne that is to wyt Some saye, and They say, & Folke say. And than hath he now brought forth other two, whome he maketh as me semeth bothe as wytnesses & iudges to, that is the good sely sowle Symkyn Salem, and his ryght honest neyghbour brother Byzance. Well I am content I, yt all his fyue wytnesses be sworē & wel examined, how they know the thyngꝭ that they reporte / & than those spyrytuall iudges of whom they shall so speke and proue, set it be layed vnto theyr charges. And yf you fynde of suche so many, and theyr dealynge so cruell or vniuste, as this man maketh it, or any thynge well towarde it: than am I content that ye shall for them byleue all the remanaūt the wurse. And yet is yt I wysse somwhat with the most. And than am I content that you byleue also, that this man had for that cause / a necessary occasion and a profytable, to put yt tale in his bate makynge boke.

But in the mene whyle, I laye agaynste hym for yt point, and agaynst all his fyue wurshypfull wytnesses to, the dede & the reporte of ye gretest and the moste honorable temporall lordes of the kynges most honorable counsayle, and other ryght wurshypfull temporall men of the same with them, whiche by the gracyouse commaūdement of the kinges hyghnesse, haue examyned dyuerse suche complayntes, at the suit of ye partyes thē selfe and theyr frendes, & haue theruppon founden the same complayntꝭ false, & that thordynaryes haue done them but ryght, and that wyth great fauour to.

And therfore as for thys poynte, the treuthe beynge so substancyally proued vppon this syde, by all hys fyue forenamed wytnesses, on the tother syde sette I not fyue strawes. And therfore good reders as for this poynt, his puttynge of that pyece in hys boke of diuisyon, had neyther necessyte nor profyte / excepte it were eyther necessary or profytable to sow a euyll sede agaynste good folke, of vntrew reprouable slaunder in hys owne wrytynge, vnder the colour of some other mēnes vnproued wordꝭ.

Than resteth there as farre as I can se but one cause byhynde, yt shold excuse hym. And that is that it was a thynge profytable for the people, to know that though a man of a lyghtnesse or of a passyon growynge of ignoraunce or of frayltye, speke and […]alke heresyes at lybertye: yet but yf he defende it opinatyuely, he shold not be taken for an heretyke therby. Deryly good readers yf thys tale were trewe: yet wolde I wene as I sayde, this tale vnto the people as good vnwryten as wryten, & a great dele better to.

As for thys good man or any man ellys, I can not let theym to wryte what they lyste, and saye they thynke it good be it neuer so badde in dede. But I durste in my conscyence no more vse thys fashyon of wrytynge concernynge heresye, than I wolde vse it in wrytynge any boke, wherof I wolde speke of eyther treason or any other felony / excepte some other necessary occasyon sholde happely dryue me therto, as no good occasyon in hys booke of dyuysyon droue this good man therto.

If I were agayne to reade in Lyncolns Ine & there were in hande wyth a statute that touched treason and all other felonyes: I wolde not let to loke, seke out and reherse whyther any heyghnouse wordes spoken agaynst the prynce, were for the onely spekynge to be taken for treason or not.

Nor I wolde not let in lyke wyse to declare, if I founde out any casy[…] in whyche a man though he toke an other mannes horse agaynst the law, sholde yet not be iudged for a felon therby. And this wolde I not onely be bolde there to tell them, but wolde also be bolde in such french as is peculiare to the lawys of this realme, to leue it wyth them in wrytynge to. But yet wold I reken my selfe sor[…] ouer sene, yf all suche thynges as I wolde in that scole speke in a redyng, I wolde in englysh into euery mannys hand put out abrode in prent. For there is no such necessyte therin as is in the tother. For in ye places of court these cōpanies must nedes be taught it / oute of whyche companyes they must after be taken that shalbe made iudges to iudge it. But as for the comon people to be tolde that tale, shall as farre as I se do many folke lytell good, but rather very great harme. For by perceyuyng that in some thinges were no thynge the perell that they ferede, some may waxe therin more neglygent / and by lesse ferynge ye lesse dayngeour, may soone steppe into the more. And therfore haue I wyste ere thys, the iudges of a great wysedome in great open audyence, where they haue hadde occasyon to speke of hyghe mysseprisyon or of treason, forbere yet the sayenge of some suche thynges, as they wolde not haue letted to speke among them selfe.

If any man wold happely thynke that it were well done that euery mā were taught all / and wollde aledge therfore that if he know surely what thynge wolde make hys behauour hygh treason or heresye, than though he wolde aduenture all that euer were vnder that, yet wold he be peraduenture the more ware to kepe hym selfe well from that / as many a man though he byleue that he shall abyde greate payne in purgatory for hys venyall synnes, dothe for all that no greate dylygence in forberynge of them, and yet for ye feare of perpetuall payne in hell, taketh very greate hede to kepe hym selfe frome those synnes, that he surely knoweth for mortall.

As for suche venyall synnes as folke of fraylty so comenly do fall in, that no man is almoste any tyme wythout theym, though the profyte wolde be more yf men dyd wene they were mortall, so that the drede therof coulde make menne vtterly forbere theym: yet syth it wyll not be, that men wyll vtterly forbere them / the knowlege of the trouth is necessary for them / leste euery tyme that they do suche a veniall synne in dede, wenyng that it were mortall, the doyng of the dede wyth the conscyence of a mortall synne, myghte make it mortall in dede.

But of any such kynde of veniall synnes as be not so mych in custume, and may be more easyly forborne: I neuer founde any wyse man to my remembraūce, that wold eyther wryte or teche the comune peple so exactly, as to say though you do thus farre, yet is it no dedely synne / but wyll in suche thynges syth the veniall synne it self is a drawyng toward ye dedely, rather leue the people in dowt and in drede of dedely synne, and thereby cause them to kepe them selfe farre of from it / than by tellynge theym it is but a venyall synne, make them the lesse aferde to do it / and so come so myche the ner[…]r to mortall synne, and assaye how nere he canne come to it, and not do it, tyll he come at laste so nere the brynke, that hys fote slyppeth and downe he falleth in to it. For as the s[…]rypture saith, Quiamat periculum, peribit in illo. He that loueth perell shall perysshe in it.

Nowe as for heyghnouse wordes spekynge agaynste the prynce, or talkynge of heresye agaynste the knowen catholyque fayth: these are no thynges lyke these commen veniall synnes / but be thynges bothe twayne, whyche they that do theym, maye myche more easely forbere them. And therfore were it more profyte vnto the people, to thynke rather the more perell therin thanne the lesse.

The iudgꝭ parte is to se that the punysshement passe not the grauyte of the offence. And therfore shall the comon people take none harme, though them selfe concernynge treason or heresye, fall not by suche bokes to the myncyng of suche maters, and dyspute howe farre they maye go forwarde in theym, wythout the extreme daynger and perell of them / but shall the better kepe them selfe from the greater, yf for fere of greater, they kepe them selfe well from the lesse.

But surely suche tales tolde vn the people, and geuyn euery man and woman at auenture in prented englysshe bookes abrode, as may geue them suche boldenesse in talkynge, as thys man here in thys.xiiii. chapyter dothe, and to tell theym that there is not therin so mych perell, as many man wolde wene: maye be myche harme bothe vnto them selfe and vnto other to. To them selfe, for with a lytell lesse feare than they had before, they maye soone fall ferther than they dyd before, or euer wolde haue done. And than sholde he in whome it so sholde happen, fynde that it were (as holy saynt Hierome sayth) better to leue some thynges vnknowen, than with perell to lerne theym.

To other men also maye a man do thereby myche harme. For some man with bolde talkynge heresyes, wherby he maketh other men fyrste to take them for lyght, and lytell and lytell after to byleue them to (whyle they here him so boldely speke them, & here hym nothynge reproue them) may do mych more harme by making many other fal from ye fayth, though he were not fallen from it hym selfe, than he shold do if he hylde his tonge, though secretely in his harte he were a starke heretyke in dede.

And therfore surely good reader, what so euer the man ment in hys owne secrete mynde, the fashyon of his doctrine is yet in my mynde playnely a thynge to the people myche more perylouse than profytable / and in his booke of dyuysyon very euyll putte in, and here euyll repeted agayne.

Now where as he referreth the remanaunt of the mater concernyng heresye, vnto theym that can better skyl / of whom he desyieth me to aske what were to be done, wyth suche as speke heresyes and are none heretykes in theyr harte: surely yf euer any suche case sholde happen, as I shold nede to make serche for that poynte, I wolde wyth good wyll so do. But I loke for no suche necessyte. For it is inough for me, yf I sholde happe to here any talke heresyes, than to declare it vnto theyr ordynaryes, to whome the ferther charge apperteyneth, to make therupon ferther serch suche as he maye / and theruppon as he maye ferther fynde therof, so ferther do therin. And as for thys man hym selfe, as he canneth therin for any thynge that I se very lytell skyll, so wolde I that he hadde lesse medeled therwith, than to tell and teache the peple fyrst by hys booke of dyuysyon, and afterwarde by thys booke agayne, that they maye speke and talke heresyes well inough, wythout the daynger or perell to be for suche spekynge lawfully taken for heretyques. Wyth whiche tale though it were trewe, he doth them yet lytell good. For the vsyng of such spekyng of heresyes, yf it fully proue not a man an heretyque, yet may it make hym ye wote well of heresye in hys harte very ryghte sore suspecte. For as oure sauyour saythe hym selfe, Ex habundantia cordis os loquitur. The mouth speketh suche thynges as in the harte be plentuouse and haboundeth. And therfore I saye, that though he neyther defende it obstynately, nor can be precysely proued an heretique in his secrete harte: yet maye his open wordes be suche (though they were spoken of I can not tel you what maner passyon) that for the sore suspycyon that his own wordes hath brought hym selfe into, he maye well and wyth good reason be compelled to abiure. And therin were there I wysse no great honesty nor no very great profyte neyther. And yet is it al the profyte that I se can come of thys good mannes doctryne.

And this is the thynge so that this good mā bosteth in this chapiter, the seconde syde of his.xliiii, lef, that I do not deny / as though he had goten therby a great ouer hande on me in ye mater. But yet wold I good reders saue for the length, let hym perceyue thys ouersyghte and ignoraunce, in another maner touchynge the thynge that he so bosteth that I denye hym not / and wolde make hym loke a lyttell better euyn vppon Summa Rosella, whom he so mych allegeth here hym selfe.

And where as in the same lefe and syde, he maketh a certayne certyfycate (as though I were a bysshoppe, and hadde sente hym a commyssyon to enquyre) that he knoweth not one heretyke in all this realm in worde nor dede: mary I wolde meruayle myche yf he dyd. For yt muste nedes be very long ere he can knowe any, while the man is so lytle suspycyouse in maters of heresye, that though he sholde here theym talke heresye by hym, yet bycause though he heare what theyr mouthes speke, he can not yet perdyelo […]oke in vnto theyre hartes there, and se what they thynke, nor knoweth not also, whyther yf they were asked where they were well a ferde, they wolde holde yt opynatyuely / or elle[…] (rather than be burned or beare a fagotte) say that they sayde yt al but of a passyon of ignoraunce or frayltye: he can not therfore lyghtely knowe any one heretyque (as he sayeth he doth not) neyther in worde nor dede in all thys whole realme.

And then for hearynge by report, therin goth he farther and sayeth.

For howe be yt that I haue herde somtyme reported, that there be many heretykes / yet I neuer hard so farre profe therin, that I myght with conscyence […]uge or report / that this man or that man is an heretyque. And to euery lyght worde a man maye not gyue full credēce in that behalfe / ne reporte yt lyghtly / that any man is an heretyque by suche lyght tales. And surely thys poynte is myche to be noted of all men / but moste spycyally of them that dayly myny[…]tre the sacramentes of the chyrche, lefte happely thorough suche reportes they mynystre theym somtyme in dedely synne, and yet wolde not thynke so theym selfe.

It wolde haue done very well, that thys good man hadde geuen as lyghte a credence, to suche reportes in mysse handelynge of heretyques as some haue made hym of the spyrytualtye (yf hym selfe therin saye trewe) as he semeth to haue geuen to theym that haue reported vnto hym that there are many heretiques. For than, syth after hys owne preachynge here, a man oughte to be so well ware howe he lyghtely reporte agayne, any euyll lyghte reportes that he hathe herde to the slaunder of any one man: hym selfe wold not of lykelyhed so lyghtely haue made such euyll report in that poynt, to the slaunder and obloquye of the prelates of the spyrytualtye, therby to brynge theym in grudge of the whole temporalty, vppon such lyght reportes made vnto hym, by some lyghte symple persones / where as by the kynges honorable counsayle the trouthe hathe ben so playnely proued to be contrarie.

But yet where as he confesseth that he hathe herde yt sometyme reported, that there be many heretyques: I wolde fayne wyt of hym, whether that suche reporte haue ben made vnto hym by any of the temporaltye. If he saye naye, but that all that so tolde hym were spyrytuall men: than may they byleue hym that thynke hys answere lykely. For I wolde wene in my mynde, that betwene hym and spyrytnall persones, were not so myche famylyare companye, as to come to tell hym that tale. For he semeth not very metely for spyrytuall men in that mater to make theyr mone vnto. And than yf he harde yt eyther of temporall men besyde, or of temporall men onely and no spyrytuall men at all: than dyd he not very well when he wrote in hys dyuysyon, that spyrytual men make that noyse for a polycye. And yet also wolde I farther wy[…] whether he haue herde any speke heresyes in any place where hym selfe was present in companye. If he answere me naye: than wyll I preace no farther vppon hym, but let euery man as I saide before byleue yt that thynketh yt lykely. But on the tother syde, yf he answere me ye: than wolde I fayne farther wyt, whyther euer hym selfe wente so farre wyth theym, as to proue whether he sholde by hys owne rule in thys chapyter, haue cause to shewe theyr ordynarye of theym, that he myghte sende for theym / or ellys that herynge folke so speke heresyes by hym, he toke all to the beste alwaye of his owne specyall goodnesse / and leste he myghte wyth questyonynge happe to fynde yt worse, folowed euer in that mater, the good counsayle that saynt Poule gaue in a nother mater, nolite interrogare, propter conscientiam, aske no questyon, leste you brynge a scruple into your conscyence. If he vsed any dylygence in questyonynge: than were yt well lykely that he founde in all thys longe whyle, some where at the leste wyse some one.

But now yf he herde them speke heresye, & founde no faute therwyth, nor no questyon asked: then ys yt as I sayde lytle meruayle, though he neuer no where in al England foūd one. And that is euen one of the very thynges, whyle many folke nowe fall to the same fashyon, to heare heresyes talked and lette the talkers alone, whyche yet wyll (yf they be brought into the court byfore the iudge) tell than the trouth, and wyl not be so false as to be forsworen: thys is I say one of the very special thynges, for whyche in cryme of heresye the suyte ex officio (whyche in the next chapyter folowyng he laboreth […]ore to destroye) maye what so euer thys man saye, in no wyse be forborne, but yf we wolde haue the […]iretes swarme full of heretyques, why the very lykely were to folowe, though he saye naye.xl. tymes.

And that haue I agaynste hys boke of dyuysyon well declared in myne Apologye. And he hath agayn here in thys boke defended, in that poynte his boke of dyuysyon, as your self shal anon se god wote wyth myche worke full febly.